For converts to Anglicanism

[Gnarwhal]

(Just FYI, this is a x-post of mine from OBOB).

I've been having a lot of difficulty pulling the trigger on any sort of traditional church. Before my divorce I was pretty gung-ho about it, but then I sort of lost my zeal. I didn't go to church for a subsequent year because I was always working late Saturday nights or Sunday mornings.

Since my schedule opened up and I've been free to go to church again I've simply gone back to the church I grew up in (C&MA church). It was kind of 'easy' to do so. It's close by, my sister and her fiancé go so I can sit with them, and the setting is always familiar so it adds comfort. I accepted it for a while, thinking that while I'm readjusting to being back in church life going back to my old stomping grounds would soften the transition.

I can't shake the fact that I'm drawn, and have been drawn for some time now, to traditional Christianity. Since 2011-2012 (sometime around then) I'd been investigating it. It started with Eastern Orthodoxy and branched out to Catholicism and Anglicanism. I also like Presbyterianism but it's a very different form of tradition.

Anyway, I'm just finding that I'm terribly afraid of commitment anymore. Much of it might be related to my divorce, but I could be wrong. At this point I feel about 80% positive and 20% negative/unsure about both Catholicism and Anglicanism.

So I wanted to ask people who have converted (really to any other tradition, but I'm asking here in STR because I trust folks in here to be objective) how they managed to overcome doubts and those hitches in theology and practice that maybe you struggled with swallowing. How did you manage to embrace or circumvent theologies, practices and even political/social positions that maybe you are/were at odds with prior to joining?

Also, I'm a much more rational than emotional person. Which is part of the reason that I gravitated towards more traditional forms of Christianity and away from the charismatic-evangelical arena I had been in before. That being said, I want to feel something. I just don't know how, or if I would/could within a traditional context. Does anyone have any testimony about any such experiences? I shy away from charismatic flavors of Christianity as a personal preference, but has anyone felt the Holy Spirit the way evangelicals talk about it, yet it was within a liturgical context?

I'm sorry if I'm not making much sense, I'm still trying to home in on what my struggle is but I was hoping to flesh it out on here.

Thanks all, I appreciate your kindness and willingness to engage me on this.

 

[CanadianAnglican]

I grew up in Pentecostal churches and as an adult (when I was in university) felt myself drawn to a very traditional Anglican parish nearby. I ended up exploring Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy and still on occasion attend an Orthodox Church in America parish for Great Vespers. I feel a strong connection with Orthodoxy, more-so than Roman Catholicism, but ultimately made my home with traditional Anglicanism.

When I was in the process of exploring Anglicanism, Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism there was a quotation from Mere Christianity by CS Lewis I found particularly helpful:

I hope no reader will suppose that "mere" Christianity is here put forward as an alternative to the creeds of the existing communions — as if a man could adopt it in preference to Congregationalism or Greek Orthodoxy or anything else.

It is more like a hall out of which doors open into several rooms. If I can bring anyone into that hall, I have done what I attempted. But it is in the rooms, not the hall, that there are fires and chairs and meals. The hall is a place to wait in, a place from which to try the various doors, not a place to live in. For that purpose the worst of the rooms (whichever that may be) is, I think preferable. It is true that some people may find they have to wait in the hall for a considerable time, while others feel certain almost at once which door they must knock at. I do not know why there is this difference, but I am sure God keeps no one waiting unless He sees that it is good for him to wait. When you do get into the room you will find that the long wait has done some kind of good which you would not have had otherwise. But you must regard it as waiting, not as camping. You must keep on praying for light: and, of course, even in the hall, you must begin trying to obey the rules which are common to the whole house. And above all you must be asking which door is the true one; not which pleases you best by its paint and paneling.

In plain language, the question should never be: "Do I like that kind of service?" but "Are these doctrines true: Is holiness here? Does my conscience move me towards this? Is my reluctance to knock at this door due to my pride, or my mere taste, or my personal dislike of this particular door-keeper?"

When you have reached your own room, be kind to those who have chosen different doors and to those who are still in the hall. If they are wrong they need your prayers all the more; and if they are your enemies, then you are under orders to pray for them. This is one of the rules common to the whole house.

The traditional doctrines of Anglicanism were to me quite compelling. I felt God's love when I attended my local Anglican parish, and I saw the Holy Spirit at work with other Parishioners. As a bonus, the local parish was traditional in theology and doctrine, so I never have had issues there, and while I have concerns at the national level (and even within my own diocese), in my view the Anglicanism I hold to, and which is reflected at my parish is reflective of traditional Anglican orthodoxy (and the views of a majority of Anglicans worldwide and throughout history) so it all seems to work for me.

I saw all this without going too deeply into detail, so I don't know how helpful it is. If you like, I could maybe give a few examples of what drew me to traditional Anglicanism, though I have specifically limited what I've said so far because I don't want to make this into something that could be perceived as an attack on Eastern Orthodoxy or Roman Catholicism.

 

[TheBarrd]

I like the analogy of the hall and the rooms...
However, I need to point out that there is only ONE church.

 

[graceandpeace]

I've been attending the Episcopal Church for over a year now, & prior to that I was visiting an Eastern Orthodox parish. I also briefly considered Lutheranism. I'm not "officially" Episcopalian yet, & I'm not sure when I will be, but I consider myself at home now in Anglicanism.

So I wanted to ask people who have converted (really to any other tradition, but I'm asking here in STR because I trust folks in here to be objective) how they managed to overcome doubts and those hitches in theology and practice that maybe you struggled with swallowing. How did you manage to embrace or circumvent theologies, practices and even political/social positions that maybe you are/were at odds with prior to joining?

I came from evangelical, conservative oriented Methodist churches, so moving to Anglicanism has not been too difficult in some matters of theology, & the change in worship atmosphere has been a breath of fresh air. I struggled for a little while when I first started visiting with TEC because I had fallen for the Orthodox parish I had been attending. Once I logically evaluated that tradition though, I realized I could not convert for different reasons.

Anglicanism really makes sense as a catholic tradition that also is reformed, & strikes me as an honest, balanced approach to the Christian faith. I still have much to learn I think, but any time a question has come up, I've just tried my best to research & find an answer.

As for political or social issues, I find I am mostly in agreement with TEC. Initially I struggled with my beliefs on one issue, but my stance slowly changed after doing some reading & seeking on my own, rather than anything TEC told me to think on the matter.

Also, I'm a much more rational than emotional person. Which is part of the reason that I gravitated towards more traditional forms of Christianity and away from the charismatic-evangelical arena I had been in before. That being said, I want to feel something. I just don't know how, or if I would/could within a traditional context. Does anyone have any testimony about any such experiences? I shy away from charismatic flavors of Christianity as a personal preference, but has anyone felt the Holy Spirit the way evangelicals talk about it, yet it was within a liturgical context?

The beautiful thing about the liturgy & tradition is that it is something solid - a rock to cling to no matter how I am feeling on Sunday morning. Sometimes I am joyful. Sometimes I am depressed. Sometimes I sense what might be considered God's presence in my own way - & sometimes I feel nothing at all. But the prayers, the Creed, the Gospel, the Eucharist...they're a constant for me, & I find healing.

I think there needs to be great caution exercised in seeking out a particular "feeling" from worship. I'm not suggesting that's what you're hinting at, but certain evangelical & charismatic groups work hard to induce an emotional response that is tantamount to manipulation, IMO.

It doesn't matter how we feel. What matters is how we live - whether we seek to love & serve as He calls us to.

I hope you find the answers you need.

 

[Albion]

On the contrary, I think you make perfect sense, Darth, and I believe there are many people who would have similiar stories.

I do know that many, many people have moved between denominations, looking for the one that's right. Some of the most famous thinkers in history, as a matter of fact. In the end, something clicks and the journey ends. I believe that it may also have something to do with one's temperament. That's where the emotional worship services vs. the more formal and traditional ones come in. But as for doctrine, in my own case, I spent years studying and assessing what I could accept in my heart as true (as opposed to what I rationally understood as a possibility or preferred to believe), based upon that which I believed to be the ultimate guide which, in my case, is Scripture. If Scripture is wrong, everything in Christianity would be gone, even though I love all the beauty and majesty and intangibles of my own church.

(Just FYI, this is a x-post of mine from OBOB).

I've been having a lot of difficulty pulling the trigger on any sort of traditional church. Before my divorce I was pretty gung-ho about it, but then I sort of lost my zeal. I didn't go to church for a subsequent year because I was always working late Saturday nights or Sunday mornings.

Since my schedule opened up and I've been free to go to church again I've simply gone back to the church I grew up in (C&MA church). It was kind of 'easy' to do so. It's close by, my sister and her fiancé go so I can sit with them, and the setting is always familiar so it adds comfort. I accepted it for a while, thinking that while I'm readjusting to being back in church life going back to my old stomping grounds would soften the transition.

I can't shake the fact that I'm drawn, and have been drawn for some time now, to traditional Christianity. Since 2011-2012 (sometime around then) I'd been investigating it. It started with Eastern Orthodoxy and branched out to Catholicism and Anglicanism. I also like Presbyterianism but it's a very different form of tradition.

Anyway, I'm just finding that I'm terribly afraid of commitment anymore. Much of it might be related to my divorce, but I could be wrong. At this point I feel about 80% positive and 20% negative/unsure about both Catholicism and Anglicanism.

So I wanted to ask people who have converted (really to any other tradition, but I'm asking here in STR because I trust folks in here to be objective) how they managed to overcome doubts and those hitches in theology and practice that maybe you struggled with swallowing. How did you manage to embrace or circumvent theologies, practices and even political/social positions that maybe you are/were at odds with prior to joining?

Also, I'm a much more rational than emotional person. Which is part of the reason that I gravitated towards more traditional forms of Christianity and away from the charismatic-evangelical arena I had been in before. That being said, I want to feel something. I just don't know how, or if I would/could within a traditional context. Does anyone have any testimony about any such experiences? I shy away from charismatic flavors of Christianity as a personal preference, but has anyone felt the Holy Spirit the way evangelicals talk about it, yet it was within a liturgical context?

I'm sorry if I'm not making much sense, I'm still trying to home in on what my struggle is but I was hoping to flesh it out on here.

Thanks all, I appreciate your kindness and willingness to engage me on this.

 

[Sean611]

(Just FYI, this is a x-post of mine from OBOB).

I've been having a lot of difficulty pulling the trigger on any sort of traditional church. Before my divorce I was pretty gung-ho about it, but then I sort of lost my zeal. I didn't go to church for a subsequent year because I was always working late Saturday nights or Sunday mornings.

Since my schedule opened up and I've been free to go to church again I've simply gone back to the church I grew up in (C&MA church). It was kind of 'easy' to do so. It's close by, my sister and her fiancé go so I can sit with them, and the setting is always familiar so it adds comfort. I accepted it for a while, thinking that while I'm readjusting to being back in church life going back to my old stomping grounds would soften the transition.

I can't shake the fact that I'm drawn, and have been drawn for some time now, to traditional Christianity. Since 2011-2012 (sometime around then) I'd been investigating it. It started with Eastern Orthodoxy and branched out to Catholicism and Anglicanism. I also like Presbyterianism but it's a very different form of tradition.

I grew up in the Jehovah's Witness cult and I struggled with pretty much everything for some time. I'd be lying if I didn't say that I was drawn, at least in part, to traditional/liturgical denominations because it is the polar opposite of what I grew up with. That said, I too was drawn to the beauty and stability of the liturgy.

I went the Anglican route for many reasons, but I must say that I went Anglican because I believe it is the closest to the truth, otherwise why would I or any us be here if we didn't think that? I also appreciate the diversity of Anglican worship, whether it be high/low or evangelical/catholic. The beauty of Anglicanism is that it allows for this sort of diversity and despite some differences amongst us, we pretty much agree on the basics of Anglicanism. Sure we have differences in how we apply statements like the 39 Articles and how we try to understand the Eucharist, but we don't see these things as church breaking. We are united in prayer and united by the Prayer Book. That said, there are certainly those that take advantage of this diversity in Anglicanism and some use it to push things that are quite contrary to anything resembling Anglicanism.

Anyway, I'm just finding that I'm terribly afraid of commitment anymore. Much of it might be related to my divorce, but I could be wrong. At this point I feel about 80% positive and 20% negative/unsure about both Catholicism and Anglicanism.

So I wanted to ask people who have converted (really to any other tradition, but I'm asking here in STR because I trust folks in here to be objective) how they managed to overcome doubts and those hitches in theology and practice that maybe you struggled with swallowing. How did you manage to embrace or circumvent theologies, practices and even political/social positions that maybe you are/were at odds with prior to joining?

As someone who considers themselves to be a traditionalist Anglican, you don't really get over the hitches in theology and practice or the political/social positions. You must decide for yourself and for you conscience whether or not these positions are a deal breaker for you. No, you won't find that perfect church and getting involved in any denomination requires tolerating positions that you might find yourself in disagreement with. That said, you must decide for yourself what it is that you can tolerate and what it is that you cannot tolerate.

As for myself, I struggle with some of the things that go on in TEC. Sometimes its the promotion of progressive political decisions that I struggle with and other times it is matter of theological progressivism that I struggle with. If certain issues find themselves as the accepted norm in the coming years, it is going to really put me in a difficult position. That said, I also realize that joining any other denomination brings its host of problems and struggles. Like I mentioned earlier, we each must decide where that line is and what we can tolerate and what we can't tolerate in good conscience.

Also, I'm a much more rational than emotional person. Which is part of the reason that I gravitated towards more traditional forms of Christianity and away from the charismatic-evangelical arena I had been in before. That being said, I want to feel something. I just don't know how, or if I would/could within a traditional context. Does anyone have any testimony about any such experiences? I shy away from charismatic flavors of Christianity as a personal preference, but has anyone felt the Holy Spirit the way evangelicals talk about it, yet it was within a liturgical context?

To be honest, the traditional/liturgical church is the only place I have felt much of anything. Many other places, though not all, make me feel like it is superficial or hokey. That is just my personal feeling and not meant in any way to be a slam. In my estimation, there is something deeply personal and deeply spiritual about partaking in the body and blood of Christ. It is important for one to reflect on this mystery and prepare themselves for such an encounter, lest the Eucharist just become a meaningless action one goes through on Sundays.

I'm sorry if I'm not making much sense, I'm still trying to home in on what my struggle is but I was hoping to flesh it out on here.

Thanks all, I appreciate your kindness and willingness to engage me on this.

No problem, I hope it helps!!

 

[Unix]

It has helped to look at which canon the different Churches have. I get suspicious if neither the denomination has a broader canon than 66 books nor their theologians/scholars if glancing their books. So it's important to also look at what the denomination's scholars write academically.

And in fact looking at what the typical book from a denomination in a Bible Study software such as Logos/Verbum looks like, reveals a whole lot. Of course only a minority has a chance to check this as it costs a lot of money. But anyway book-buying requires a lot of caution and sometimes You buy the wrong books. What I mentioned was the only use for those 'wrong books', even though I could have arrived at the same conclusion anyway.

My prayer-life has been greatly enriched by many different denominations.

A Church has to engage in broad ecumenism but not to the extent of erasing themselves, nor should it be only goal because of a couple of reasons: it can be a theoretical utopia far worse than the Biblical scholarship or theology, and it can definitely lead to agreeing only on the least common denominator which is totally besides the point.

Christianity should not be about the least You can believe, the least You can do, or the least You have in common with other Christians around You for example in Your Church.

Anglicanism can seem like an easy choice, but over here we only have one established parish in this entire country as far as I know, although ACNA intends to start somewhere around here too. Even so, the size of the denomination is definitively a strength. I'm decent at searching for books but if a denomination would be small (only have a few million members worldwide) it would be really hard to find a substantial amount of books and that wouldn't satisfy me. I don't believe small denominations have the finances nor can attract the best scholars, to produce the kind of (some of them have to be up-to-date too) books I want to read. But of course You can't stare Yourself blind on the number of members as those figures are usually pretty inflated to a large part consisting of members who automatically became members and have very minor reasons for not quitting the membership (such as free/cheap weddings and cheaper funerals).

Talking of which, I'm not sure how much I like Churches that emphasize weddings. I barely know what a wedding is like but I can't understand why it should be planned in such detail and be expensive - if inviting many guests what forces to pay for all that shouldn't they bring their own food? Also, I hate all sweet tastes so wedding cakes and such is disgusting.

Speaking of which - I prefer Churches where You eat sandwiches - not cookies or ice-cream, and drink water or apple juice - not coffee, I can't stand the smell of coffee and have never even tried to drink because I know I hate it so much. What You do in the cafeteria does say something about a Church. I like to talk to interesting people but I can't be friends with more than a dozen and it does take a long while to get to know that many. Really the priest should sometimes preach a sermon against coffee pointing out for example that there are allergic people and people with a different taste and that You grow fat from cookies! I can watch when others eat perfectly well since it's up to them and I don't care, but I don't want coffee-drinkers within a few meters.

I've given up about hearing a priest preaching much morals and ethics - instead I've taken such classes in both college and university. There isn't really any Christian morals in my opinion - it doesn't show in reality that people are Christian, at least they don't adhere to the New Testament as most Christians, the vast majority, want war and to torture pigs.

I also look at what age people talk to me in Church. I want to talk to people who can teach me something and with whom I can have an even discussion or nice chat, and typically those are younger people and my teachers, for about 1½ years I haven't met almost any around my own age, who attend some Church (not necessarily mine) who I found worthwhile to talk to more than a few seconds. I don't have that much in common with people of my own age since I don't strive for taking the flight to the sun nor am concerned about tenant-ownerships.

And yeah, if I sing or want to listen to a singer or a choir, I rather go to the Anglican or the Catholic Churches. I'm not sure that's a theological point either, but when I research theology I look at what the scholars are like and their output and don't let one or two denominations be the limit.

 

[SilverAvenger]

Well, people here got the subject extensively covered, but as someone who was on a faith search for the biggest part of his life [I started questioning my family's atheism when I was four, and only settled down more or less at 23 years of age], I'd like to drop my two cents on the pot.

Unix over there spoke of cafeterias, and Bible Study, but to be honest, choosing a church is a matter of listening to your own soul and find out what it's yearning for. At least by my viewpoint [I grew up in Portugal and here, there's no Bible Study for adults, nor church cafeteria. In fact, there's no socialization after Mass/Service in Portugal]

Anyways, I was born in Switzerland and my family attended Old Catholic services there for a while. Then my mom decided "no more mass" and strict atheism was enforced untill my grandmother went for a visit and gave me basic roman catholic catechism education. She had my mother pressed on to get me baptized before when I was a baby, and made sure I'd get my first communion and Faith Profession [sadly, she died before I got Confirmed, so I didn't got confirmed]. I then moved to Portugsl, and during my vacations, I lived with grandma, who was a strictly devouted Roman Catholic and was visibly upset when I said that I wanted to be a priest [I'm a transgender man withough operations. For Roman Catholics, someone like me wanting to be a priest is....well...a big no no]. As a victim of Bullying since a young age, I ended up convinced that God had abandoned me and embarqued on a faith journey.

I went over several denominations over the years: Catholic, luteran, dabbed over Seventh Day Adventism, Unitarism and even changed religion a couple of times. I was Muslim. I was Tibetan Buddist. I was Jewish. I must say that of all the places where my search lead me, Judaism and Catholicism were the only ones where I fealt trully at home.

Eventualy, the folks here helped me finding my own path and I ended up as an Old Catholic with Celtic influences......who attends Roman Catholic Mass.

Old Catholics has a Tradictional Catholic base - Many dioseses pray Tridentine Latin Mass, and there's a very strong attachment to pre-Vatican I tradictions. But as Catholics with no Pope, we're many times called to judge things by our own judgement: No Old Catholic Bishop [at least back in Switzerland - no idea how it's like in the US] would tell his flock that they could not use condoms, for example. Or not to attend mass because you live outside an Old Catholic diosese when there's valid Eucharist being consecrated at the church next door which happens to be Anglican or, like my case, Roman Catholic [Although nearest church being 30kms, not exactly next door]

People are called to use their discernement. Yet, Old Catholics have female and LGBT priesthood, same sex blessings and married clergy: something Roman Catholics dread [or at least the Roman Curia does].

Catholicism has that flavor of tradiction - It was what my soul yearned for - yet if you cling to your will and what you know in your soul that is right, but goes against "cannon", maybe Old Catholicism aka Christian Catholicism would be a good place. I don't speak for Anglicanism, since honestly, I don't know much about it, but I think the others have covered it well.

Either way, what you trully need is to go to different services in different denominations and see which you feel better with. Your soul will show you the path.

As a Suggested reading, I'd drop you the Dark Night of the Soul , by St. John of the Cross. You can get it here for free: http://www.2heartsnetwork.org/DarkNightOfTheSoul.pdf It's a great tool to help in this case.

 

[everbecoming2007]

I was not raised with religion other than Protestant folk beliefs. In my childhood I joined a Oneness Pentecostal sect that my grandparents were affiliated with. At age fourteen I could not reconcile their theology or worldview with the Bible or wider fields of knowledge, but having little exposure to any other tradition, I ceased to believe in Christianity at all. My baptism in this sect was not truly valid, not truly a baptism, so I had never fully been Christian. For the next several years I constructed my own belief system. Later on the scriptures and their imagery echoed in my heart after I began visiting a traditional Methodist liturgy. I also read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I still was not really a Christian, but I felt drawn to Jesus and settled on an Episcopal parish with a 1928 liturgy and a well celebrated Rite I modern liturgy. I liked the balance between the liberal-leaning national church and my conservative parish at the time. I was still not fully a Christian for a long time in the Episcopal Church, but through the prayers of the liturgy I have finally become a true Christian. Until that happened I varied between different beliefs and various levels of syncretism and eclecticism. It took a long time it seems to become a Christian, but my priest told me it was okay -- that the belief would follow prayer. And it did.

Of course I had some theological tensions with the church, but I think this would be true no matter what I would have chosen. The political issues are not easy for me. I disagree with much of it. When I do agree or do sympathize with a political issue or a liberal-leaning theological controversy in the Episcopal Church I disagree with the reasons the decisions are made in every circumstance I am aware of which is just as bad. I also disagree with much of the politics of other options I have looked into and have some theological tensions with them.

This is difficult for me because now that I have grown into a Christian I have theological issues I didn't have when I joined the church. One has to decide what is essential and what can be tolerated. This can be difficult because those views can change over time -- even after the commitment to the church has already been made. That is something each person simply has to work through with study and prayer.

The most wonderful thing about my Episcopal parish is the beautiful liturgy. It is so majestic and befitting for worshiping the God of heaven and earth. One's personal feelings are not important. The liturgy remains relatively stable however one may feel. I can be angry, happy, depressed, or "off," but the words and actions stay the same. That is a great comfort. I love kneeling for the Eucharist and drinking from the chalice and watching the sacramental wine shimmer. I love the old hymns from so many centuries and saints. Though feelings are less important than the stability of the liturgy, there have been many times when I have had strong feelings during the liturgy. They are not excessive or violent like one might see in the Charismatic movement, but many times the tears come, usually during the hymns or the Eucharist. This is always a quiet moment with no one else seeming to notice, as it should be.

 

[Lily_o_valley]

I am an 'accidental' Anglican, and although I love the liturgy, the prayers and the ritual, I don't totally agree with everything. But I have found, certainly in the UK, that it is a church where there is a great deal of room for dissent. Nobody is forced to believe anything they can't consent to. Where I live, the Anglican church tends to be rather more conservative and Anglo-Catholic so I have no experience of pentecostal / charismatic side of things within the Anglican church (although pentecostalism is part of my background) but of course The Alpha Course, which has a charismatic aspect, was developed in an Anglican church in London, and there is certainly a history of charismatic congregations in the UK. (The book 'Nine o'clock in the Morning' details the 'conversion' of an Anglican vicar and his church to charismatic things). So certainly there is room for it, but you may need to do some searching to find it in an Anglican church if that is what you long for. Xx

 

[iansek]

I have never felt anything in a pentecostal setting and i was one for 9 years.I have felt sinful in a catholic mass and happy on another occassion.
I do meet with a group associated with Watchman Nee and with these saints i always sense the presence of God corporately and individually. It is just a peaceful and loving feeling and is much deeper than anything i felt when i was in a catholic or protestant or pentecostal setting.

You might want to try this ministry if you are looking for an inner sense of peace and joy. It might be the best for you. Ignore the cult talk.