For Catholics only: Is this a mortal sin?

colleen · Jul 30, 2005

Corey,
We can not say who God will send to heaven or to hell. But, if you know that touching yourself is a grave matter and with full consent you do it anyway well I hope you would go to confession. God is ready to forgive all that come to him, but if you refuse to ask forgivenes than you are showing contempt for God. Also touching yourself isn't just some light matter. It is a sin against the beautiful act that God intended sex to be.
Colleen

Paul S · Jul 30, 2005

CoreyZallow said:
I meant that I don't see how God would care about somebody masturbating as much as He would somebody raping a girl, which is a horrid sin, much more horrible than masturbating. I believe that God will be just in His judgements and that He wouldn't sentence us to an eternity in Hell for something small like masturbating once for about 5 minutes. True it would lengthen our time in purgatory but it wouldn't get us sent to an eternity in Hell. Who could you see going to Hell, a rapist murderer scumbag or a nice polite God fearing person who masturbated once for a few minutes?

The rapist will receive a greater punishment in Hell, but both sinners will be there. Sex is something holy, meant for marriage and procreation - masturbation is a rejection of God's plan.

Remember what got us in this mess in the first place - eating some fruit. Of course, the real sin of Adam was disobeying God.

Are you really looking for the Church's teaching on this topic, or are you looking for an excuse to continue masturbating? We all don't want our sins to be sins, but they are, whether we like it or not. We should seek to conform our lives to God's will, not the other way around.

Cosmic Charlie · Jul 30, 2005

colleen said:
Corey,
We can not say who God will send to heaven or to hell. But, if you know that touching yourself is a grave matter and with full consent you do it anyway well I hope you would go to confession. God is ready to forgive all that come to him, but if you refuse to ask forgivenes than you are showing contempt for God. Also touching yourself isn't just some light matter. It is a sin against the beautiful act that God intended sex to be.
Colleen

Hey Collen,

Where are you getting the impression it a grave matter ?

Dream · Jul 30, 2005

Cosmic Charlie said:
But not a mortal sin. For that you need "grave matter", not "gravely disordered action"

How can something be a "gravely disordered action" but not be of "grave matter"?

No, but it sure seems like it knocks it down to a misdemeanor.

Does that make it acceptable? Purposely continuing to touch is giving deliberate consent.

Paul S · Jul 30, 2005

Photini said:
See read this OP again. Maybe I'm up too late...but it looks to me that he is implying that this person, if he didn't touch, would go rape women.

I don't think the OP is personally saying he's using it for that purpose, just that it could be the result without an outlet. Your earlier response was fine.

bostonlass · Jul 30, 2005

What if someone starts dating someone and uses masturbation so that they won't fornicate with the one he/she is dating? Wouldn't it be better for the person to touch than to have premarital sex?

Cosmic Charlie · Jul 30, 2005

DreamTheater said:
How can something be a "gravely disordered action" but not be of "grave matter"?

Well, "gravely disordered" is something this is badly out of wack.

"grave matter" is something really important.

Like the coolant temperture on your car might be registering the wrong temperture by 100 degrees (gravely disordered) but the car still runs rights

But if the engine suddenly blows a piston rod through the block - grave matter.

See, not the same.

Does that make it acceptable? Purposely continuing to touch is giving deliberate consent.

I;m not getting into some sick twisted discussion about whether masturabation is good deed or something. I am defending the stand the its not automatically a mortal sin.

Paul S · Jul 30, 2005

sweetcaroline said:
What if someone starts dating someone and uses masturbation so that they won't fornicate with the one he/she is dating? Wouldn't it be better for the person to touch than to have premarital sex?

No, because both are mortal sins. The proper approach is to control one's urges, and to ask God for the grace to do so.

That's like asking which is a better way to earn money: selling drugs or robbing a bank.

Dream · Jul 30, 2005

sweetcaroline said:
What if someone starts dating someone and uses masturbation so that they won't fornicate with the one he/she is dating? Wouldn't it be better for the person to touch than to have premarital sex?

You are assuming that these are the only two options, when there is in fact a third one: do neither.

colleen · Jul 30, 2005

From the CCC
"2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability."

touching yourself is a sin against chasity, and takes sex out of its proper place. How could that not be grave matter? Would you argue that sex before marriage is not grave matter?

Cosmic Charlie · Jul 30, 2005

Paul S said:
No, because both are mortal sins. The proper approach is to control one's urges, and to ask God for the grace to do so.

That's like asking which is a better way to earn money: selling drugs or robbing a bank.

I need the answer to two questions at thie point:

1) How do you know he's going to hell for masturbating ? (You stated that eariler)

2) How do you know his sins are mortal ?

Because you are slamming thourgh this thread like you have these facts

Cosmic Charlie · Jul 30, 2005

Photini said:
BTW, Charlie, I'm glad I gave you a good laugh tonight. I've sat here at my comp. laughing at you many many times myself. GLad I could return the favor there.

Thank you, fan, ( as far as I now I only have one)

bostonlass · Jul 30, 2005

Paul S said:
No, because both are mortal sins. The proper approach is to control one's urges, and to ask God for the grace to do so.

That's like asking which is a better way to earn money: selling drugs or robbing a bank.

ok....I've done both. And I've confessed both. When I confessed premarital sex I got a looooong lecture including questions of whether I intend to marry the guy I was having sex with and then I got like 5 our fathers, 5 hail mary's and had to promise to live my life in a chaste manner while unmarried and refrain from the sex.

When I confessed masturbation I got one our father and no speech no questions just a request to do a good act of contrition.

Dream · Jul 30, 2005

Cosmic Charlie said:
I;m not getting into some sick twisted discussion about whether masturabation is good deed or something. I am defending the stand the its not automatically a mortal sin.

You are correct in saying it is not automatically a mortal sin, but you also seem to take the stance of "it can't be that bad because everybody does it."

Paul S · Jul 30, 2005

Cosmic Charlie said:
I need the answer to two questions at thie point:

1) How do you know he's going to hell for masturbating ? (You stated that eariler)

2) How do you know his sins are mortal ?

Because you are slamming thourgh this thread like you have these facts

Okay, fine.

Masturbation is grave matter. If done with full knowledge and consent, which we cannot know, but is left to the judgment of God, it is a mortal sin. I think all of us here know knowledge and consent are required for mortal sin. It's much easier to say "mortal sin", than all of the above.

But, whatever we call it, it's a sin, and should not be done.

bostonlass · Jul 30, 2005

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

Wouldn't you say that trying not to have premarital sex is a social factor??

Cosmic Charlie · Jul 30, 2005

DreamTheater said:
You are correct in saying it is not automatically a mortal sin, but you also seem to take the stance of "it can't be that bad because everybody does it."

I'm just saying everybody does it.

Get over it.

Once your over it and you realize that you didn't invent this, I think its a whole lot eaiser to deal with .

Cosmic Charlie · Jul 30, 2005

Paul S said:
Okay, fine.

Masturbation is grave matter. If done with full knowledge and consent, which we cannot know, but is left to the judgment of God, it is a mortal sin. I think all of us here know knowledge and consent are required for mortal sin. It's much easier to say "mortal sin", than all of the above.

But, whatever we call it, it's a sin, and should not be done.

Where are you getting that its a grave matter from ?

Paul S · Jul 30, 2005

sweetcaroline said:
ok....I've done both. And I've confessed both. When I confessed premarital sex I got a looooong lecture including questions of whether I intend to marry the guy I was having sex with and then I got like 5 our fathers, 5 hail mary's and had to promise to live my life in a chaste manner while unmarried and refrain from the sex.

When I confessed masturbation I got one our father and no speech no questions just a request to do a good act of contrition.

Just because a priest doesn't think it's serious, or assign a heavy penance, doesn't mean it isn't.

And, while both are disordered, premarital sex can be much more dangerous, because there's the potential for creating a new life. Masturbation, and the use of pornography that often accompanies it, are serious, and can lead to problems, but not in the same way pregnancy can.

Cosmic Charlie · Jul 30, 2005

sweetcaroline said:
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

Wouldn't you say that trying not to have premarital sex is a social factor??

Well, I would, but nobody whats to listen to me tonight.

For Catholics only: Is this a mortal sin?

We are an Easter people!

Salve, regina, mater misericordiæ

The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated

Well-Known Member

Salve, regina, mater misericordiæ

sweet caroline ;)

The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated

Salve, regina, mater misericordiæ

Well-Known Member

We are an Easter people!

The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated

The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated

sweet caroline ;)

Well-Known Member

Salve, regina, mater misericordiæ

sweet caroline ;)

The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated

The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated

Salve, regina, mater misericordiæ

The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated

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