For all that fear hell

[mkgal1]

As to the possibility that people can still get saved after they die. Paul is quite clear on this.
Philippians 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
2 Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Paul probably isn't as "clear" as you're thinking.

You are still imposing your belief of what "destruction" Paul is speaking of (that isn't there in the text). You are also (IMO) assigning his term ("enemies of the cross of Christ")to a more modern group, when it was actually a very specific group Paul was referring to. Are you aware of the persecution of the early church? Do you recall that most of the disciples were murdered for their beliefs? Also....are you aware that temple sacrifices continued after Christ's resurrection and until 70AD when the temple was destroyed....? Then that all came to and end---because of the destruction. Would you think that maybe those could be the idolaters Paul referred to?

From what I've read....Paul was writing around 60 AD. The temple wasn't *destroyed* (the destruction hadn't occurred) until 70 AD. That is what makes sense to me as far as the predicted destruction Paul made reference to (the destruction of Jerusalem). The temple sacrifices.....and all other temple rituals were going to be destroyed (what they were putting their faith in would no longer exist). "Whose end is destruction" = the end of the Jewish Age.....no more temple.

"Then the crowds spread out their robes along the road ahead of him, and as they reached the place where the road started down from the Mount of Olives, the whole procession began to shout and sing as they walked along, praising God for all the wonderful miracles Jesus had done. 'God has given us a King!' they exulted. 'Long live the King! Let all heaven rejoice! Glory to God in the highest heavens!' But some of the Pharisees among the crowd said, 'Sir, rebuke your followers for saying things like that!' He replied, 'If they keep quiet, the stones along the road will burst into cheers!' But as they came closer to Jerusalem and he saw the city ahead, he began to cry. 'Eternal peace was within your reach and you turned it down,' he wept, 'and now it is too late. Your enemies will pile up earth against your walls and encircle you and close in on you, and crush you to the ground, and your children within you; your enemies will not leave one stone upon another- for you have rejected the opportunity God offered you.' Then he entered the Temple and began to drive out the merchants from their stalls, saying to them, 'The Scriptures declare, My Temple is a place of prayer; but you have turned it into a den of thieves'" (Lk.19:36-46 TLB).​

These are the narratives that include the "enemies of the cross" that Paul is referring to (in my view, anyway):

From Acts 7:54-60-----> Once the council members heard these words, they were enraged and began to grind their teeth at Stephen. 55 But Stephen, enabled by the Holy Spirit, stared into heaven and saw God’s majesty and Jesus standing at God’s right side. 56 He exclaimed, “Look! I can see heaven on display and the Human One standing at God’s right side!” 57 At this, they shrieked and covered their ears. Together, they charged at him,58 threw him out of the city, and began to stone him. The witnesses placed their coats in the care of a young man named Saul. 59 As they battered him with stones, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, accept my life!”60 Falling to his knees, he shouted, “Lord, don’t hold this sin against them!” Then he died.


From Acts 14:19------> But Jews came from Antioch and Iconium, and having persuaded the crowds, they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing that he was dead.

Jesus warned about this when He spoke to His disciples----->
Remember the word that I said to you, “A slave is not greater than his master.” If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. These things I have spoken to you, that you may be kept from stumbling. They will make you outcasts from the synagogues; but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God (John 15:20; 16:1-2).

And so, now it comes just as they were forewarned, just as it happened in the Old Testament. The heart of the man is the same throughout all generations. They embrace the evil and oppose the good, and as Jesus said: “And these things they will do, because they have not known the Father, or Me” (John 16:3).

From John:
47 Then the chief priests and Pharisees called together the council and said, “What are we going to do? This man is doing many miraculous signs! 48 If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him. Then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our people.”~John 11:47-48
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Then their temple (the "enemies of the cross", I mean) that they relied so much on for their piety was destroyed in a short time after (only about a decade from when Paul was writing Philippians and Corinthians). That is the context that I'm aware of. ​

 

[mkgal1]

Still waiting for an answer on why did God require all of those animals to be sacrificed.

As far as I know....all we can do is speculate. There is temple language like "atonement" and "payment of sin" and "sacrifice" for sure......but is that because that was the system that the ancients were accustomed to (I believe so)? I think God meets us where we are in our understanding.....and then shows us something better (just as His death on the cross was superior in power to the early covenant sacrifices that "made nothing perfect" as it's written in Hebrews 7:19).

 

[Doug Melven]

The "end" of all people was "destruction" by God (Gen.6:13). This already happened. Yet they are not annihilated forever. And they will be resurrected. This shows that "end" does not refer to final destiny, so Phil.3:19 fails as a proof text against universalism.

Yes, they will be resurrected.
John
5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Paul probably isn't as "clear" as you're thinking.

You are still imposing your belief of what "destruction" Paul is speaking of (that isn't there in the text). You are also (IMO) assigning his term ("enemies of the cross of Christ")to a more modern group, when it was actually a very specific group Paul was referring to. Are you aware of the persecution of the early church? Do you recall that most of the disciples were murdered for their beliefs? Also....are you aware that temple sacrifices continued....? Would you think that maybe those could be the idolaters Paul referred to?

From what I've read....Paul was writing around 60 AD. The temple wasn't *destroyed* until 70 AD---that is what makes sense to me as far as the predicted destruction Paul made reference to (the destruction of Jerusalem). The temple sacrifices.....and all other temple rituals were going to be destroyed (what they were putting their faith in would no longer exist). "Whose end is destruction" = the end of the Jewish Age.....no more temple.

Paul said there end was destruction, not life.
A really good verse for you to ponder is Proverbs 14:12 and 16:25. Notice it is written twice.
There is a way that seems right to a man (or Woman) but the end thereof is death.
Just because something makes sense to you, does not mean it is right.

As far as I am aware of....all we can do is speculate. There is temple language like "atonement" and "payment of sin" and "sacrifice" for sure......but is that because that was the system that the ancients were accustomed to (I believe so)? I think God meets us where we are in our understanding.....and then shows us something better (just as His death on the cross was superior to the early covenant sacrifices that "made nothing perfect" as it's written in Hebrews 7:19).

There is no speculation needed, Leviticus is quite clear.
Those sacrifices were needed to make atonement for the people's sins.
God takes sin very seriously.
When a person brought an animal to atone for there sins, they had to be the ones to use the knife and kill it.
This would make that person understand just how evil sin was.

You US people seem to think that it does not matter what choices a person makes in this life, they will still have a chance in the next life.
According to your doctrine a person can reject Christ all of there life, and after they die they can repent and be saved.
But God's Word says all your choices are made in this life. (Pro 14:12, 16:25).
Solomon was giving good advice and he did not want people to make the wrong decision in this life.
But you guys are like, "It doesn't matter what you do in this life, God is loving and will not punish you for your choices in this life.
,You should really ask yourself, "Am I deceived, or am I a deceiver"?
If you are just one of the deceived, you will just have many tears for God to wipe away.
But, if you are one of the deceivers, well, let's just hope you are not one of those.
I see you that you guys have totally hardened your hearts to the truth, so this will be my last reply to either of you.
I am putting you on ignore, but if you guys change your minds I will accept a private conversation from you.
I will pray for you that you would see the truth.

 

[mkgal1]

I don't get what you mean when you say I look at it in a static and unchanging way.
The Word of God is alive and it is just as good for us as it was for the original readers.
There were people in Isaiah's day who did not believe the Gospel.
There were people in Paul's day who did not believe the Gospel.
There are people today who do not believe the Gospel.
There will always be people who will not believe the Gospel.

Exactly.....the Word of God is alive and active---Paul was writing about a particular time. We have a snapshot of what he was dealing with at the time. It would be like me saying in a letter, "my dishwasher is broken and my dishes are piling up"....and for that letter to be preserved for years and never see beyond that time (and the possibility that situation has since changed). To expect that things are the same as they were in that letter--years later--isn't very reasonable. Things change. Just because there were people at Paul's time and in our time that aren't responding to the Gospel doesn't mean it's the end of the story. We haven't reached "The End" yet. But....I have hope in God's promises:

" When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to me.”~John 12:32
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Jesus must remain in heaven until the restoration of all things, about which God spoke long ago through his holy prophets.~Acts 3:21
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In the same way that everyone dies in Adam, so also everyone will be given life in Christ.~1st Corinthians 15:22
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Who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.~1 Timothy 2:4
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The grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people.~Titus 2:11
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The Lord isn’t slow to keep his promise, as some think of slowness, but he is patient toward you, not wanting anyone to perish but all to change their hearts and lives.~2nd Peter 3:9
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The Lord then said, “You are right, for I’m watching over my word until it is fulfilled.”~Jeremiah 1:12
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His plan was in place to restore us to communion with Him from before the foundation of the earth (Eph 1:4)....and:

‘My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure’; calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of My purpose from a far country. Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, surely I will do it” (Isaiah 46:3-11)
​

 

[mkgal1]

There is no speculation needed, Leviticus is quite clear.
Those sacrifices were needed to make atonement for the people's sins.

....except they didn't.

So the former commandment is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the Law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. ~Hebrews 7:19​

God takes sin very seriously.

I don't believe anyone is arguing against that.

 

[mkgal1]

I will pray for you that you would see the truth.

I will pray the same for you

 

[mkgal1]

You US people seem to think that it does not matter what choices a person makes in this life, they will still have a chance in the next life.
According to your doctrine a person can reject Christ all of there life, and after they die they can repent and be saved.

I realize this poster probably won't see this response, but I did want to clear something up (that is commonly misunderstood). As a believer in Universal Reconciliation, that doesn't mean I believe God has an "anything goes" attitude. A great visual from author John Pavlovitz is that His table is open for ALL His creation.....but He does have rules/expectations in order for there to be peace and harmony at that table. I just trust that He's the best one to know how to enforce all that (and that He will). Couldn't that be what "faith like a child" could mean? Trusting Him to do what's necessary to fulfill His plan? He has all of eternity to work it all out.

 

[mkgal1]

Paul said there end was destruction, not life.

Right.....not much more life in a Temple that's no longer there.

 

[ClementofA]

Yes, they will be resurrected.
John
5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

New American Standard Bible
and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

What is the purpose of judgement:

23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (Jn.1:29)

They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world." (Jn.4:42)

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself." (Jn.12:32)

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf