Flying Spaghetti Monster

[Colter]

And that is the pride we are talking about.



Ahh, so a deity created the universe for your family. Again, that is pride talking.

The pride I'm talking about is the kind where someone lacks the character to concede when an opponent has a point. To proud to admit when one is wrong so they ignore or lie.

God made the universe for everyone but you are a childish debater so it goes over your head. God made it for you to even though you are hostile to him in your current state of mind.

 

[Loudmouth]

You seem to have misunderstood my use of the term delusional. I was saying that if the people of the religion that you were born into were delusional, that is, if Christianity is just one big group of people who fooled themselves by an imaginary God, and there is no God, they will just die in the same way Atheist die in their belief system. You lost nothing by leaving and gained nothing in unbelief.

You lost nothing? We could start with 10% of your income. We could also add all of that time spent worshipping a God that doesn't exist, and following rules for absolutely no reason. We could also add the political and social injustices that religion brings, such as the ban on gay marriage that is only now being lifted here in the US.

You lose nothing? You really need to take a look around.

 

[bhsmte]

You seem to have misunderstood my use of the term delusional. I was saying that if the people of the religion that you were born into were delusional, that is, if Christianity is just one big group of people who fooled themselves by an imaginary God, and there is no God, they will just die in the same way Atheist die in their belief system. You lost nothing by leaving and gained nothing in unbelief.

You are still claiming a group to be delusional, which is a strong label to put on someone.

Explain to me, how you would come to the conclusion, this group was delusional and be specific, with such a strong claim you decide to toss around about others.

Do you believe that former Christians who discovered their belief was likely not true to be delusional?

 

[Loudmouth]

The pride I'm talking about is the kind where someone lacks the character to concede when an opponent has a point.

Then you are the most prideful poster in this thread.

God made the universe for everyone but you are a childish debater so it goes over your head. God made it for you to even though you are hostile to him in your current state of mind.

Case in point.

 

[bhsmte]

The pride I'm talking about is the kind where someone lacks the character to concede when an opponent has a point. To proud to admit when one is wrong so they ignore or lie.

God made the universe for everyone but you are a childish debater so it goes over your head. God made it for you to even though you are hostile to him in your current state of mind.

Tell us what point you have made and what evidence you utilized, for a non-believer to take you seriously?

 

[Colter]

What if you worshipped the wrong deity and will be punished for eternity for doing so? What if the atheists are passed over for judgement because we did not worship any deities, and therefore did not make the True Deity jealous?

Sounds like you had better be an atheist, just in case.

There is only one deity to worship regardless of the conceptual poverty within or outside of ANY evolutionary religion. God responds to the faintest flicker of faith anywhere any time in the heart of the sincere seeker.

There is no eternal punishment, there is life or death. God is so fair that even the candidate is not exterminated until he or she agrees with the fairness of the proceedings. If you don't want life that is your choice.

 

[Colter]

Tell us what point you have made and what evidence you utilized, for a non-believer to take you seriously?

post #262

 

[True Scotsman]

Your need to be right about your convoluted premise is your own egos problem. Each time you have presented it I'm not even sure I understand it. Something about existing within the primacy of existence therefore....yada yada..... That existence is its own primacy is not a widely held belief among philosophers so....

Wow. You admit that you don't understand the argument but you claim it is invalid. You can't refute it but you won't concede. You claim that atheists are blinded. You ask for proof and then dismiss it without examining it.

Everyone take a good look at the face of intellectual dishonesty.

You need to go back to the kid's table. This is the adult table where serious people come to discuss ideas. Make verifiable claims and cogent arguments and you earn a place at the adults table. Make arbitrary claims and hold up the Urantia Book and you belong at the kid's table, where you can talk about anything you want to like unicorns and pots of gold at the end of the rainbow and spirit nodules but you don't have any adult responsibilities and no one takes you seriously.

 

[Loudmouth]

There is only one deity to worship . . .

Are you saying that Hindus are delusional? What about all of the thousands of other gods that man has worshipped over the years? You worship all those thousands of other gods, don't you? Just in case?

regardless of the conceptual poverty within or outside of ANY evolutionary religion.

Evolution is a scientific theory, chief. It isn't a religion.

God responds to the faintest flicker of faith anywhere any time in the heart of the sincere seeker.

Based on what evidence?

There is no eternal punishment, there is life or death. God is so fair that even the candidate is not exterminated until he or she agrees with the fairness of the proceedings. If you don't want life that is your choice.

What about Zeus?

 

[bhsmte]

post #262

Ok, a guy had a transformation in his life. Certainly, not the first time this has happened to a person. Did you show how this transformation ties directly to a God? I may have missed that part.

Do you think non-believers ever have transformations in their life? Do you think people are capable of transforming their life with the proper self motivation?

 

[Colter]

You lost nothing? We could start with 10% of your income. We could also add all of that time spent worshipping a God that doesn't exist, and following rules for absolutely no reason. We could also add the political and social injustices that religion brings, such as the ban on gay marriage that is only now being lifted here in the US.

You lose nothing? You really need to take a look around.

I don't tithe, I'm not a member of a church, the secular government has taken far more than 10% from me.

I do the will of a God that does exist for fun and for free. Its not rules and laws. You yourself claim to do the will of your idealism.

I agree that the influence of religion has been both positive and negative but on balance it has done tremendous good for the world long before science was born.


I'm pro gay marriage, I have gay family members.

I'm pro choice, but not pro abortion.

 

[Loudmouth]

I do the will of a God that does exist for fun and for free.

There is your cost.

 

[Colter]

Ok, a guy had a transformation in his life. Certainly, not the first time this has happened to a person. Did you show how this transformation ties directly to a God? I may have missed that part.

Do you think non-believers ever have transformations in their life? Do you think people are capable of transforming their life with the proper self motivation?

Bill W, a former skeptic reach a point of desperation, he had a spiritual experience. After leaving the hospital and devoting himself to working with others Bill wrote the 12 steps that he took and the book Alcoholics Anonymous. He and other would start the AA groups that are no world wide. Its the closet thing I have as quantifiable proof for skeptics but then again, it wont be enough for those hostile to God.

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

 

[Colter]

There is your cost.

It s great joy to love and serve others as God loves us. I consider it my great privilege.

 

[bhsmte]

Bill W, a former skeptic reach a point of desperation, he had a spiritual experience. After leaving the hospital and devoting himself to working with others Bill wrote the 12 steps that he took and the book Alcoholics Anonymous. He and other would start the AA groups that are no world wide. Its the closet thing I have as quantifiable proof for skeptics but then again, it wont be enough for those hostile to God.

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

My original point stands.

Show how this directly points to a God?

Secondly, do you think atheists ever transform their life, with no belief in a God?

Also, please answer my question in regards to who you deem to be delusional. How do you determine if someone is worthy of this label? Do you believe former Christians who no longer believe are delusional?

 

[Colter]

Wow. You admit that you don't understand the argument but you claim it is invalid. You can't refute it but you won't concede. You claim that atheists are blinded. You ask for proof and then dismiss it without examining it.

Everyone take a good look at the face of intellectual dishonesty.

You need to go back to the kid's table. This is the adult table where serious people come to discuss ideas. Make verifiable claims and cogent arguments and you earn a place at the adults table. Make arbitrary claims and hold up the Urantia Book and you belong at the kid's table, where you can talk about anything you want to like unicorns and pots of gold at the end of the rainbow and spirit nodules but you don't have any adult responsibilities and no one takes you seriously.[/QUOTE}

Your primacy claims are a false foundation, from their I don't understand your points because they are contaminated by the all or nothing axioms that you attempt to pigeon hole people with. Not a lot of other rand fans here with you.

 

[Colter]

My original point stands.

Show how this directly points to a God?

Secondly, do you think atheists ever transform their life, with no belief in a God?

Also, please answer my question in regards to who you deem to be delusional. How do you determine if someone is worthy of this label? Do you believe former Christians who no longer believe are delusional?

You claim religious people are wrong and you left them, I referred to them as hypothetically as delusional.

It directly points to God because millions of hopeless drunks who surrendered to God now have sobriety.

Yes, atheist can transform their lives, I used an example of 50,000 sober alcoholics in one place who were transformed by relying on God.

 

[Loudmouth]

It s great joy to love and serve others as God loves us. I consider it my great privilege.

What does God have to do with it?

 

[Loudmouth]

You claim religious people are wrong and you left them, I referred to them as hypothetically as delusional.

YOU claim that billions of religious people are wrong because they have religious beliefs that you reject.

It directly points to God because millions of hopeless drunks who surrendered to God now have sobriety.

Where is your evidence that God had anything to do with it?

 

[bhsmte]

You claim religious people are wrong and you left them, I referred to them as hypothetically as delusional.

Still have not answered the question. Why the need to hypothetically call a group delusional? How would you determine if they were in fact, delusional?

It directly points to God because millions of hopeless drunks who surrendered to God now have sobriety.

Atheists also who were former drunks became sober as well.

Yes, atheist can transform their lives, I used an example of 50,000 sober alcoholics in one place who were transformed by relying on God.

Doesn't point directly to a God as the cause. A psychological placebo is more like it.