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Jase

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Today at 07:36 PM Mechanical Bliss said this in Post #15




Because it's (1) impossible, (2) unsubstantiated, and (3) falsified.
 

Why is it impossible?  Because you assume the topography of the world we see today, is the same as it was before the flood? Nope.

If the flood is so falsified, expain fluidisation pipes, massive coal beds, footprints in Grand Canyon Sandstone layers that scientists said had to made underwater to account for the patterns, or how about a large fossil deposit in France of sea, land, and lake species all piled together? Were they neighbors? :rolleyes: The geological column is also believed to have been caused by a massive catastrophe. Or explain why other civilizations have mentioned  a global flood? Or how about the amount of sedimentary layer on the ocean floor fitting in line with a large flood? 
 
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Arikay

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"Why is it impossible?  Because you assume the topography of the world we see today, is the same as it was before the flood? Nope."

What did the topography of the world look like before the flood?

Today at 07:40 PM Jase said this in Post #21

 

Why is it impossible?  Because you assume the topography of the world we see today, is the same as it was before the flood? Nope.

If the flood is so falsified, expain fluidisation pipes, massive coal beds, footprints in Grand Canyon Sandstone layers that scientists said had to made underwater to account for the patterns, or how about a large fossil deposit in France of sea, land, and lake species all piled together? Were they neighbors? :rolleyes: The geological column is also believed to have been caused by a massive catastrophe. Or explain why other civilizations have mentioned  a global flood? Or how about the amount of sedimentary layer on the ocean floor fitting in line with a large flood? 
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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If the flood is so falsified, expain fluidisation pipes, massive coal beds, footprints in Grand Canyon Sandstone layers that scientists said had to made underwater to account for the patterns, or how about a large fossil deposit in France of sea, land, and lake species all piled together? Were they neighbors?  The geological column is also believed to have been caused by a massive catastrophe. Or explain why other civilizations have mentioned  a global flood? Or how about the amount of sedimentary layer on the ocean floor fitting in line with a large flood?

How about starting with the grand canyon tracks? I assume you mean tracks in the Coconino Sandstones. It is not scientists who say these tracks were made under water. It is only creationists. Scientists say the Coconinos were sand dunes that bordered on an inland sea. Here are some nice pictures of the tracks.
http://www.psiaz.com/Schur/azpaleo/cocotr.html
Many of them could not have been made underwater.

YEC flood geology is totally bogus. One of the best site demolishing it is

http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/

The creationist claims about the Coconino Sandstones as flood deposits are demolished here.
http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/grandb.htm

Your other claims are also bogus but I don't have time to address them right now and I am sure others will address before I find the time.

Multiple falsifications of the flood have been posted here recently. How about trying to refute some of them? 

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/41209-1.html
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/41820-1.html
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/40474-1.html

The Frumious Bandersnatch


 
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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Today at 10:40 PM Jase said this in Post #21 

Why is it impossible? 

Well, there's not enough water on Earth, for one...

And here are some of the rest of the reasons why.

Because you assume the topography of the world we see today, is the same as it was before the flood? Nope.

Evidence supporting that assertion? None whatsoever.

If the flood is so falsified, expain fluidisation pipes, massive coal beds, footprints in Grand Canyon Sandstone layers that scientists said had to made underwater to account for the patterns, or how about a large fossil deposit in France of sea, land, and lake species all piled together? Were they neighbors? :rolleyes:

The funny thing is that coal is a problem that your young earth model cannot explain. Footprints in sandstones of the Grand Canyon also cause problems for your model considering, if you had examined the evidence more closely, the footprints are of reptiles and the sandstone is of a desert environment. Large fossil deposits occur when local floods happen. However, YECs/flood "geologists" have yet to account for the aforementioned features fatal to your model. I keep linking to the thread. If it's not falsified, why can't they be addressed? Because YECists cannot.

The geological column is also believed to have been caused by a massive catastrophe.

No, it's not. The geologic column is composed of a great deal of different layers of many different compositions formed in different environments. Furthermore, practices such as age dating and biostratigraphy indicate that they are not all the same age. And most fatal to your model, perhaps, is the fact that the geologic column is so distinctly stratified this way. If a global flood is responsible for the entire geologic column, and if this flood lasted less than one year as flood geologists insist, then we should see no stratification or such variations in materials represented in the layers. We should see no massive salt beds. We should see no igneous intrusions. We should see no angular unconformities--or any unconformable surfaces between layers at all. We should see no paleosols. We should see very little limestone or other chemical precipitates at all. In fact, we should see hardly any fossils whatsoever.

The geologic column is exactly what it cannot be if your model is correct.

Or explain why other civilizations have mentioned  a global flood?

So what?

First of all, not all of them are global flood myths and not all of them are the same as your myth. Many of them are different. Why do civilizations have flood myths at all? Because many civilizations arose in river valleys which were, to no one's surprise, prone to flooding. People write about what they see and things that happen to them.

Or how about the amount of sedimentary layer on the ocean floor fitting in line with a large flood? 


Except it doesn't at all. It may sound harsh, but especially on this point you reveal your complete ignorance of geology. You have no idea what you are talking about to the point that you have oversimplified marine geology to its extreme. Have you actually looked at deep sea cores drilled by the Deep Sea Drilling Project or the Ocean Drilling Project? Probably not if that's your claim. The oceans contain a wide variety of materials, and many of them are biogenic, that is precipitated from fluids and formed from the shells of dead microorganisms--that takes a great deal of time and certain climatic conditions. Those organisms would have a tough time comprising the sedimentary strata on the ocean floor with a global flood going on--plus there just isn't enough time with your model. The oceans also reflect evidence of windblown dust particles and volcanic eruptions are evidenced by ash layers. Furthermore, the sediments also increase in thickness away from spreading axes. It's consistent with plate tectonics operating, not a global flooding event.

The sediments on the ocean floor hurt your case and are in no way in line with a large flood. The fact that their fossil content with depth (and thus age) matches not only radiometric dating of oceanic crust, predictions based upon plate movements, and magnetic anomalies correlated with those on continents with age shows just how wrong your model is.

The evidence in the earth contradicts your model. Thus your model is falsified. There are a variety of threads going around that have yet to be addressed. Instead they are met with silence as YECs continue to ignore the evidence that refutes their model and continue to claim that "the earth must be young!" and "a global flood must have happened" in every other thread.
 
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Arikay

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Anyway, to get to the point I was going to make.

Im assuming you are basing the believe that the earth was basically flat before the flood, based on the "hill" line in the bible. Well, besides the fact that the bible also mentions mountains, lets look at the non mountain earth and the flood in general.


What if
If, the mountains arrose before the flood.
Then the flood would have needed much more water than there is on earth.

If, the mountains arrose during the flood.
Then, The ark would have been beached as there wouldnt be enough water to keep it afloat. The flood waters would have boiled because of all the heat created by all that tectonic plate movement and the ark would have been incinerated.

If, The mountains arrose after the flood.
Then, all the animals would have been killed with the heat release of the tectonic activities.

Scriptural evidence?
Please show me scripture that backs up the claim that the mountains arrose after or during the flood?
Generally the scripture used is the Opening and Closing of the "fountains of the deep" However, this is not a description of mountains growing out of the ground, nor of the tectonic plates.
The amount of heat, energy, force and movement that the mountains forming would create, would be more spectacular than a rather small flood. Its rather amazing there is no mention of this in the bible.

World evidence?
There is also no world evidence to show that the mountains were created suddenly. quite the contrary.
Besides, as was mentioned before, the amount of heat created in the large motions of the tectonic plates and volcanos, etc, would fry the world quite a few times over.


Today at 07:42 PM Arikay said this in Post #22

"Why is it impossible?  Because you assume the topography of the world we see today, is the same as it was before the flood? Nope."

What did the topography of the world look like before the flood?

 
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Sorry to start another thread about this same old argument. I was interested in the evidence of a flood that could have the origin of the stories. The first link supplied was helpful. If anyone is interested, this is what sparked my question:

The Ice Age had locked up so much water in glaciers and ice sheets that the sea level of the whole world fell. It eventually reached a low enough point that land bridges arose out of the sea. In the north Pacific, the Bering land bridge allowed the ancestors of the Indies to cross on foot into their great empty homeland. Britain and Flanders were joined. The Dardanelles were closed and the Black Sea became a salty lake. The Persian Gulf disappeared and became a great plain cut by the Euphrates. And the Bab al Mandab, the strait at the mouth of the Red Sea, became a land bridge.

But a land bridge is also a dam. As the world climate warmed and the glaciers began to release their pent-up water, the rains fell heavily everywhere; rivers swelled and the seas rose. The great south-flowing rivers of Europe, which had been mostly dry during the peak of glaciation, now were massive torrents. The Rhone, the Po, the Strimon, the Danube poured so much water into the Mediterranean and the Black Sea that their water level rose at about the same rate as that of the great world ocean.

The Red Sea had no great rivers, however. It was a new sea, formed by rifting between the new Arabian plate and the African, which meant it had uplift ridges on both coasts. Many rivers and streams flowed from those ridges down into the Red Sea, but none of them carried much water compared to the rivers that drained vast basins and carried the melt-off of the glaciers of the north. So, while the Red Sea gradually rose during this time, it lagged far, far behind the great world ocean. Its water level responded to the immediate local weather patterns rather than to worldwide weather.

Then one day the Indian Ocean rose so high that tides began to spill over the Bab al Mandab. The water cut new channels in the grassland there. Over a period of several years, the leakage grew, creating a series of large new tidal lakes on the Hanish Plain. And then one day, some fourteen thousand years ago, the flow cut a channel so deep that it didn't dry up at low tide, and the water kept flowing, cutting the channel deeper and deeper, until those tidal lakes were full, and brimmed over. With the weight of the Indian Ocean behind it the water gushed into the basin of the Red Sea in a vast flood that in a few days brought the Red Sea up to the level of the world ocean.


I'll post the link after my 15th post.

It is from a short story by Orson Scott Card called Atlantis
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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If the flood is so falsified, expain fluidisation pipes, massive coal beds, footprints in Grand Canyon Sandstone layers that scientists said had to made underwater to account for the patterns, or how about a large fossil deposit in France of sea, land, and lake species all piled together?
Most of these have already been discussed but here something on a couple more.

Fuidization pipes are not evidence for a global flood either.

http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/a_dump_on_aig's_tas_walker.htm

They are quite easily explained by standard geology.

I don't know what large fossil deposit in France you are referring to but the fossil record clearly falsifies the global flood myth. It sounds like this particular fossil deposit also falsifies the current YEC claim that fossils are sorted because animals lived in different biomes, since we clearly have animals from lots of different biomes together there, so I would like some more information on this, Could you give us a reference please?

The Frumious Bandersnatch


Added in edit: here is another try at the NAiG url. I can't seem to get this board to accept it in the normal way

http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/a_dump_on_aig's_tas_walker.htm

Hmm, looks like it just won't work.
 
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