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Very likely. Maybe it's in my character to question everthing. I wouldn't want it any other way.I do not believe that if someone prays this prayer that they are either inspired by the Holy Spirit or a demon. I think that it is possible for our own desires to provoke a response. If we want something to be true or false, it is possible to feel that God has confirmed this. So, there is a third option. I believe that there are other options as well.
baker said:Sunshine,
This makes no sense. Do you know what the water content percentage is in wine? How does on (sic) drink wine without drinking water?
Is this just one of those "rationalizations" you've been told or have you done any research to back this statement up. How do you reach such conclusions!!!
happyinhisgrace said:LMBO....and what is wine made mostly of? Oh, I will laugh over that one for days.
Grace
thanks spike but I already knew "the above" and I am still laughing.spike said:Hi, Baker~
The research that you seek is easily found..
First, some basics on viniculture: Yes, wine is 'mostly' water, but the source of this water comes from grapes - it is drawn up thru the plant and is free of contaminants and bacteria - a 'pure' source, if you will, which wasn't a common occurrence in ancient days.
Note that water is not added to wine during the fermentation process. Your statement alludes to this, but it only shows a lack of understanding on how wine is produced.
As such, typically wine would be safer to drink than water from many 'municipal' water souces, as the water did not come from a spring, river, etc., where it could have become contaminated. It was generated from the crushed fruit and further kept purer than typical groundwater sources by its alcohol content.
I submit the following..
Recent medical studies pointing toward the potential health benefits of moderate wine-consumption would not have surprised early wine-drinkers. In ancient Egypt, wine was believed to be a treatment for asthma and other afflictions. Soldiers routinely carried flasks of wine to mix with drinking water because the wine's alcohol killed some harmful contaminants.
December 15th, 2000
Wine in the Ancient World
By Jacob Gaffney - Wine Spectator Magazine
Although wine was typically employed during ceremonial occasions, there is no indication that Jesus insisted wine be drunk in his honor. The accusation, then, that employing water in the LDS sacrament somehow nullifies the event is rather silly.
Grace, see the above, and seek thee wisdom.
Have a great day!
-spike-
baker said:This makes no sense. Do you know what the water content percentage is in wine? How does on drink wine without drinking water?
happyinhisgrace said:LMBO....and what is wine made mostly of? Oh, I will laugh over that one for days.
But at the last supper Jesus spoke of drinking of the fruit of the vine:spike said:Although wine was typically employed during ceremonial occasions, there is no indication that Jesus insisted wine be drunk in his honor.
happyinhisgrace said:thanks spike but I already knew "the above" and I am still laughing.
Didn't take much effort and ya, your right, it was worth itarizona_sunshine said:That post was totally worth your effort.
skylark1 said:But at the last supper Jesus spoke of drinking of the fruit of the vine:
Luke 22
15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Did you truly so completely misunderstand what I asked? I answered your questions, but you did not answer mine. Since it seems you have the time why did you avoid the question?
I asked you if within your church if the most important God called duties are preformed by those in gross rebellion against God. You did not answer.
In the CoJCoLDS the most sacred duties and ordinances are preformed by those who are not in open rebellion against God. If you are a faithful LDS, you believe that God has called you to subordinate your will to his will. If you do not think you have heeded that call, you will report this to your Bishop.
Repentance and calling on Christs help in my experience have been the council of the Bishop.
Unless you are content to have Sunday School teachers and Preachers who are in gross rebellion against God, perhaps child abusers, then you have standards too.
That the LDS standards are more exacting I will not apologize for.
We know that we have been called to do more than just abstain from the grossest of sins.
As to the beliefs of the CoJCoLDS, I explained that the CoJCoLDS says that all will have a fair and just opportunity. Since all ordinances will be preformed by Gods servants, ones failure to perform these ordinances in this life clearly cannot be viewed as precluding exaltation.
You asked a question. You received an answer. Then you claimed the answer was wrong. This is not the behavior of someone who wants to know answers. The things you think you know you are mistaken on.
No one gets a second chance after they die, but some like the man who lived and died without ever hearing the Word of God were not afforded a first chance to know Christ and believe that he died for our sins.
Do you believe in strict predestination? Are some of us born to go to hell no matter what we do or try to believe, and the rest born to go to heaven no matter what we do or try to believe? Some people believe this. Do you?
GodsWordisTrue:GodsWordisTrue said:We were not talking about a LDS being called to the bishopric or to teach Sunday School. You are saying that only worthy LDS can enter your temples. Protestants are therefore unworthy Christians in your eyes. Please back this teaching up with a biblical reference. In Christian churches, we don't deem certain members unworthy of God's blessings based on whether or not they have a glass of iced tea.
Why report your sins to the Bishop? How can he help you?
Mormons can call on God without going through their Bishop, can't they?
I do not believe that God decided who would be saved and who would not. He promised us that if we would seek Him, we would find Him. I take Him at His word.
I absolutely honour the Son, even as I honour the Father. (John 5:23).Breetai said:Do you pray to Jesus? I do.
Do you honor Him equally with the Father as Jesus said to do in John 5:23? I do.
Do you call Jesus your Lord and your God? I do.
emerald Dragon said:The worthiness of a member is based on the following criteria:
Are they taking care of th temples that God gave them (their bodies) by ensuring that it is not defiled on a regular basis by fornication, un-healthy substances, etc.? (this is the Word of Wisdom)
Are they adhereing to all the commandments that they have been given, to the best of their ability?
Do they have a testimony of Jesus Christ?
Do they follow the prophets?
Do they believe in the scriptures as given by Christ?
If they meet this criteria, then they are deemed worthy to enter the temple. If you meet all the criteria, then you have to be a mormon, as some things that we follow are not in other denominations.
If any member is found to be doing anything sinnful,they are interviewed, and are asked to stop it, and are given help to do so if needed. If it is severe enough, they can be excommunicated,, which removes them from the covenants that they made, and are therefore not as punishable by God for their sins.
If a member in the Churhc-anywhere, including the heirarchy-is found to be achild molestor, a rapists, a fornicator, etc., they are excommunicated. We do not tolerate people of this nature in positions of authority in the Church. I do not take kindly to the statement that Mormons are just better at hiding the leaders indescretions. We do not hide. If they do so, they are removed. I would not tolerate a leader that does any such thing.
God Bless,
Emerald Dragon
GodsWatchman said:*WOW* - Sounds like you guys have it all wrapped up then. Well - no need for that silly Crucifixion then ... Thank you for straightening me out. For a moment there I thought I was justified by faith - but you cleared that up for me ... Works is a much better road - yeah lets do that then
How does one attain the highest level of heaven?arizona_sunshine said:Its not about works over faith. Its about faith-inspired lifestyles.
No member of the LDS church is going to downplay the absolute importance of the Atonement, and the repentance process.
happyinhisgrace said:thanks spike but I already knew "the above" and I am still laughing.
Grace
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