flood of anti-Mormon sentiment

Phoenix said:

GWT,

From one non Mormon to another - Give it a rest. Cutting and pasting from websites will get you nowhere. Those posting here, it seems to me, will gladly discuss issues/questions with you if you ask.

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Sorry, I'm interested in providing information. People are free to discuss what I post.

GodsWordisTrue said:

Sorry, I'm interested in providing information. People are free to discuss what I post.

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Do you care if what you are attributing as LDS doctrine is inaccurate?

You're welcome to stay in the discussion.

TW

fatboys said:

FB: Have you had a bad mormon day today?

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Not sure what you mean.

twhite982 said:

Do you care if what you are attributing as LDS doctrine is inaccurate?

You're welcome to stay in the discussion.

TW

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You are obviously a Mormon. I expect you to challenge what I say. Please inform me of the statement you want to call inaccurate.

Sorry, I'm interested in providing information. People are free to discuss what I post.

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Ok

Phoenix said:

Ok

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Nice icon!

GodsWordisTrue said:

You are obviously a Mormon. I expect you to challenge what I say. Please inform me of the statement you want to call inaccurate.

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Here you go. This entire post of yours:

Mormons talk about "the Church" more than they talk about Christ. Mormons are obsessed with works. Exaltation is based on works. Worthiness to be ordained to an office of either priesthood is based on works. Worthiness to enter the temple is based on works (drinking a cup of coffee once a week can keep you out). Of course, Mormons are elitist! They know how many laws and ordinances they've had to obey, that the rest of the world is possibly/probably ignoring. Even if a Protestant claimed to be a full-tithe payer it wouldn't have been paid to the Lord's Church(i. e. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.). But Mormons are expected to show humility to Gentiles(non-LDS) in order to bring them into Mormonism.

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I just don't know where to begin.

Please show me that any of those statements are actual church doctrine.

P.S. It would be a good idea if knew the definition of LDS doctrine.
Just by your posts I can see that you don't.

TW

Edit: Nevermind, GodsWordisTrue, left us. What was the point of those posts if he was just going to hit and run.

twhite982 said:

Here you go. This entire post of yours:

I just don't know where to begin.

Please show me that any of those statements are actual church doctrine.

P.S. It would be a good idea if knew the definition of LDS doctrine.
Just by your posts I can see that you don't.

TW

Edit: Nevermind, GodsWordisTrue, left us. What was the point of those posts if he was just going to hit and run.

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Did you want me to stay logged on while I took care of some necessary things? Sorry.

First of all, Mormons truly believe things that aren't actual church doctrine. But LDS seldom admit to things that they find embarrassing. You see, your goal is to convert people and you work hard at your public relations.

Do you deny that one would be barred from getting a temple recommend if he/she did not keep the Word of Wisdom(no coffee, tea, alcoohol, tobacco)? Do you deny that one has to be a tithe payer to get a temple recommend? Do you deny that one has to be deemed worthy in order to get a temple recommend? Do you deny that there are certain requirements you must meet in order to be exalted in the celestial kingdom? Do you deny that it is necessary to take out one's endowments to be exalted in the celestial kingdom? Do you deny that it is necessary to be married for both time and eternity in order to have increase and attain exaltation in the next life?

"Mormons believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints contains a fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ and that this fulness is not found elsewhere. Therefore, they feel a responsibility to make the message of the restoration of Christ’s Church available to all who will hear." FARMS
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/faq/

Now how will people listen to this message if you are elitist in your efforts to convert? If you feel this responsibilty to share your message, do you deny that you have ever been taught the importance of doing this? Do I have to prove it is an official doctrine of the LDS church? Or can you admit that there are some things you ought to do that aren't official doctrine?

LDS are not supposed to smoke marijuana. Is that official doctrine?

The reason that mormonism is 'slighted' so much is because it is so easy to refute. Mormonism makes itself and easy target with its silly contradictions and attempts to hide the truth about what JS and BY said. All one has to do is read the journal of discourses to get a good idea of true roots of mormonism. And if one reads the Book of Mormon he *should* come to the truth immediately - that most of it is stolen straight our of the KJV of the bible (why the Old english eh?) and the rest is the silliest story ever written.

Flat out - Mormonism is picked on because its 'weak' and 'silly' - And I must confess that I do find joy in swinging the sludgehammer at its base when filling my spare time

GodsWordisTrue said:

Did you want me to stay logged on while I took care of some necessary things? Sorry.

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My mistake. You posted in a few threads and then just left and I thought you didn't want to stick around and have a discussion.

GodsWordisTrue said:

First of all, Mormons truly believe things that aren't actual church doctrine.

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A few might, but most know what is actual doctrine. This isn't just found in the LDS church or religion for that matter. Keep the broad sweeping statements to a minimum.


But LDS seldom admit to things that they find embarrassing.
[/QUOTE]Nobody likes admitting anything they find embarrassing. But your incinuation that I'm embarrassed about my church is wrong.

GodsWordisTrue said:

You see, your goal is to convert people and you work hard at your public relations.

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Have we met before?
How do you what my motivations are for being a Mormon?

Your claims have no substance to them.

GodsWordisTrue said:

Do you deny that one would be barred from getting a temple recommend if he/she did not keep the Word of Wisdom(no coffee, tea, alcoohol, tobacco)? Do you deny that one has to be a tithe payer to get a temple recommend? Do you deny that one has to be deemed worthy in order to get a temple recommend? Do you deny that there are certain requirements you must meet in order to be exalted in the celestial kingdom? Do you deny that it is necessary to take out one's endowments to be exalted in the celestial kingdom? Do you deny that it is necessary to be married for both time and eternity in order to have increase and attain exaltation in the next life?

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Look at my last post to you to see what I have a problem with.

Of course there are requirements for things in the church.

TW

GodsWordisTrue said:

"Mormons believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints contains a fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ and that this fulness is not found elsewhere. Therefore, they feel a responsibility to make the message of the restoration of Christ’s Church available to all who will hear." FARMS
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/faq/

Now how will people listen to this message if you are elitist in your efforts to convert? If you feel this responsibilty to share your message, do you deny that you have ever been taught the importance of doing this? Do I have to prove it is an official doctrine of the LDS church? Or can you admit that there are some things you ought to do that aren't official doctrine?

LDS are not supposed to smoke marijuana. Is that official doctrine?

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I think you have a better understanding of church doctrine than you are letting on.

In case you don't just ask.

GodsWatchman said:

The reason that mormonism is 'slighted' so much is because it is so easy to refute. Mormonism makes itself and easy target with its silly contradictions and attempts to hide the truth about what JS and BY said. All one has to do is read the journal of discourses to get a good idea of true roots of mormonism. And if one reads the Book of Mormon he *should* come to the truth immediately - that most of it is stolen straight our of the KJV of the bible (why the Old english eh?) and the rest is the silliest story ever written.

Flat out - Mormonism is picked on because its 'weak' and 'silly' - And I must confess that I do find joy in swinging the sludgehammer at its base when filling my spare time

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Mostly "Mormonism" is picked on because its simply misunderstood.

TW

GodsWordisTrue said:

Did you want me to stay logged on while I took care of some necessary things? Sorry.

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GodsWordisTrue said:

First of all, Mormons truly believe things that aren't actual church doctrine. But LDS seldom admit to things that they find embarrassing. You see, your goal is to convert people and you work hard at your public relations.

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TOm:

So, I am not sure exactly what you are referring to.

Yes, I believe many things that are not church doctrines. E=mc^2 comes to mind.

Of course we have 2-2.5 hours of religious instructions each Sunday, so doctrinally we have a pretty good foundation.

GodsWordisTrue said:

Do you deny that one would be barred from getting a temple recommend if he/she did not keep the Word of Wisdom(no coffee, tea, alcoohol, tobacco)? Do you deny that one has to be a tithe payer to get a temple recommend? Do you deny that one has to be deemed worthy in order to get a temple recommend?

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TOm:

Those seem pretty accurate. A temple recommend interview is largely the member evaluating their own worthiness. I wonder if you would allow a preacher in your church or a Sunday school teacher who worshiped the devil? What about a child abuser? Do you not have any standards for the persons who perform some of the most important duties in your church?

GodsWordisTrue said:

Do you deny that there are certain requirements you must meet in order to be exalted in the celestial kingdom? Do you deny that it is necessary to take out one's endowments to be exalted in the celestial kingdom? Do you deny that it is necessary to be married for both time and eternity in order to have increase and attain exaltation in the next life?

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TOm:

Actually, I do readily deny this.

Do you deny that the Moslem man who is born and dies without hearing of Christ is dam*ed?

The CoJCoLDS is actually quite revolutionary here. We believe that all will have a “fair and just opportunity” to accept the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. This includes this Moslem man and you too. The chance will happen either in this life or after it; however, ones time in this life will still dictate the gifts of God afforded to them by God.



So, if you feel it is the will of God that you should have a temple recommend, then you should TRY to have a temple recommend. If you do not you are rebelling against God. This is not the path to salvation.



Charity, TOm

OK, I didn't read all of this thread and I don't know if I will. I am responding to fatboys first post (#2).

You did not find many of the teachings on the website because people who are investigating the church, just as Paul taught his new members need milk before the meat.

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The Bible also teaches to "test everything(1 Thes. 5:21)" and to "not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God(1 John 4:1)". This means that we have to test everything, including the LDS doctrine.

How can anyone discern things about the LDS(or any other group for that matter) if they refuse to give the 'meat' of their teachings? How can someone 'test' the Mormon church if they hide all of their beliefs? How dare anyone keep secret their beliefs while allowing people to blindly join their church, while they are slowly revealed to the 'meat'. By the time the 'meat' of the LDS is revealed, that person is already so involved in the church that it is nearly impossible to leave. What fool would join a church that doesn't even tell you the whole story before you join? If I was considering joining a church such as the CoJCoLDS, I would darn well do a lot of research before making such a commitment. I would learn everything I possibly could about the church and compare it to itself. If their 'inspired by God' scriptures contradict each other, such as the LDS ones do, then why would I follow a God who can't even remember what he said in the past? I considered joining the Mormon church at one time, and after researching, I found it to be just one big bunch of contradictions and stories that just don't add up. I prayed to God to see if the Book of Mormon was true. I was inspired to research, to learn about the BoM and the LDS church. Joseph Smith was a false prophet. He is dead and burning in Hell right now. He was not a god and is nowhere near Jesus. He is spending eternity in hell. It would've been better for him to have had a millstone tied around his neck and been thrown into the sea.

Hello,

Comparing Mormonism to Christianity I find that the LDS sorta took a step or two backwards. The law has now been re-instated, so many things one must do to be worthy. Worthiness to go to temple. Which means that the unworthy are not allowed to go. Even a mother who has no temple reccomend cannot see her daughter (who is worthy) get married. How it truly must hurt that mother. Reminds me of Jesus hangin with the sinners, as the Pharisees had distaste written all over their faces.

Secret ceremonies, rituals, and so on. We can quote what the prophets of LDS have said and was recorded, and I have yet to see one of them called on it. Much less have anyone cop to Blood atonement. And we get the "spiritual pornography" blame. The spreading of lies are heaped upon us when in reality, we be just trying to show some truth. I would imagine though that some LDS do have a problem with the prophets of LdS. The "New Order Mormon" chat boards are filled with LDs who have problems with believing much of what the church prophets have said.

An LDS who aspires for exaltation to Celestial Kingdom must do many things to get there. If they don't, well, it's another heaven. That progression thing. That takes works of the flesh to do that. Does not even resemble Grace what so ever. I'm wondering if Grace means nothing more that an eternal life to the mormon. To be lived in one of several heavens or an eternal life to live in the Lake of Fire. And works depends on where ya go.

God tells us to do our things in secret. Not show the world what we do. Some can't do much or pay too much. He sees all things. And rewards us. Yet we look not really for rewards, understanding what the 24 Elders do time upon time.

And one of the toppers is this milk before meat thing. Heard it here about a million times. We've tried for a long time around here to get understanding between both sides of the fence, but it's a brick wall. However, God built that wall, and Jesus is the corner stone, the Foundation. There is but One True Spirit, but some will say ya gotta have a good feeling, a burning in the bosom or whatever. Never mind about what the Word of Gods says. It's just written by man, they say. Jesus came into my life, and ignorant me thought that all Christianity was basically the same. Different maybe in secondary ways.Yet so many churches claim to be the One True Church. So many. So vey sad. Thats a pride thing. Some go as far as to say that if you use a musical instrument in church, you're going to Hell. Or if you don't belong to this church your burning smoke.

There is no other fullness of the Gospel other than what God, through the Holy Spirit to men, wrote. He chose what is now compiled in our Holy Bible. But even that gets questioned. It's all about Him and His Beloved Son. What He did for us. There is so much simplicity in Christ Jesus and His Father, that most simply miss it. The Bible is the Living, Breathing, more that Abundent Word of God. It's our daily bread.

There is nothing that Man can do on his own to see the Face of God, other than to have faith in what Christ Jesus did on the Cross. Nothing but 2 Commandments to hold in your heart. Love God with all you got, and Love thy neighbor. Thats all that Christianity should mean, and it does to many.

There is'nt a person taller and worthier than anybody else. Nobody is worthy of what God and His beloved Son has done for us. Nobody.

As Solomon said, All is vain. It really is. All is vain.

Well, sorta like old Ed said, "If you don't like what I wrote, I left the rest of this whole website for you to do better that me."

And I must confess that I do find joy in swinging the sludgehammer at its base when filling my spare time

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No offense Godswatchman, but I don't enjoy this one bit. Not even.

<><

Nobody likes admitting anything they find embarrassing. But your incinuation that I'm embarrassed about my church is wrong.

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I don't know you personally. So if you're not embarrassed, we can talk about all sorts of things(if I have the time).

Have we met before?
How do you what my motivations are for being a Mormon?

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I didn't mean you personally.

Your claims have no substance to them.
Look at my last post to you to see what I have a problem with.

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I'll try to figure it out. You were annoyed with my observations of Mormons' attitudes. Right?

I have to say that is one decent post, daneel, right down to what you said to Godswatchman.

Breetai, you really looked into it, didn't you? I like your beautiful signature. Without God's mercy, we'd be without hope.

Do you deny that one would be barred from getting a temple recommend if he/she did not keep the Word of Wisdom(no coffee, tea, alcoohol, tobacco)? Do you deny that one has to be a tithe payer to get a temple recommend? Do you deny that one has to be deemed worthy in order to get a temple recommend?

Those seem pretty accurate. A temple recommend interview is largely the member evaluating their own worthiness. I wonder if you would allow a preacher in your church or a Sunday school teacher who worshiped the devil? What about a child abuser? Do you not have any standards for the persons who perform some of the most important duties in your church?

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Are you saying that some of your members worship the devil? Are you saying that by getting a temple recommend, it proves that one of your members isn’t a child abuser? Who signs your temple recommend? You or your Bishop and Stake President? Can I have one? What are the horrible sins your members commit that bar them from entering the temple?

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Do you deny that there are certain requirements you must meet in order to be exalted in the celestial kingdom? Do you deny that it is necessary to take out one's endowments to be exalted in the celestial kingdom? Do you deny that it is necessary to be married for both time and eternity in order to have increase and attain exaltation in the next life?

Actually, I do readily deny this.

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Well, deny it all you want. Facts remain facts whether you agree with them or not.
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Do you deny that the Moslem man who is born and dies without hearing of Christ is dam*ed?

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What??? You haven’t read your Bible? He that believeth not is condemned already. You will seek me and find me when ye search for me with all your heart.

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The CoJCoLDS is actually quite revolutionary here. We believe that all will have a "fair and just opportunity" to accept the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. This includes this Moslem man and you too. The chance will happen either in this life or after it; however, ones time in this life will still dictate the gifts of God afforded to them by God.

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Are you saying the God of the Bible is unjust? Who defines justice for Him? As for gifts, God has aready told us that His gift is eternal life. He also tells us how we may have it. Remember a gift is something you don’t have to pay for. The fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ has been around a lot longer than Mormonism, so thanks for promising me this opportunity, but it isn't necessary to have two lives in which to accept Christ.
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So, if you feel it is the will of God that you should have a temple recommend, then you should TRY to have a temple recommend. If you do not you are rebelling against God. This is not the path to salvation.

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Please do me a favor and define salvation.