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Sherm,Sherman said:Baker, So when is/was your daughters Temple wedding anyway?
I sure wish your daughter, her husband and your wife well!
Sherman
To the ever intrepid Wrigley, be sure not to click this link wouldn't want to learn anything new!happyinhisgrace said:It seems that Mark or someone removed some words from the Gospel of Mark. The truth was maintained for a period, but was ultimately lost (perhaps because it was about sacred esoteric rights).
Where is this information located?
Grace
baker said:Sven,
The problem with you is that you actually took the time to read and become knowlegable. You actually took the initiative to "think" for yourself.
What's up with that? True.
Oh yeah, the hampster wheel syndrome!Sven1967 said:Oh, I don't know, Baker. It was a habit I picked up after I left the LDS.
I only know that the more I study and pray, it becomes evident that I need to study and pray more.
Have a nice night.
Sven
God won't stop (can't stop) man from exercising his free will, otherwise it is not free will. Yet He did forsee the time when man would corrupt His word, and prepared for it by preserving the witness of another nation. Because of the restoration of all things, man is not hopelessly lost.GodsWordisTrue said:Yea, right. You think Mark or the Catholics have more power than God? My God is all-powerful. He doesn't let atheists, Catholics, humanists, or anyone destroy His word.
If the Bible isn't reliable, it isn't God's word, and man is hopelessly lost.
baker said:[/font][/color]
This I know. My question is why? Where do I find any scriptures requiring a sealing.
None of this is relevant to my questions. I would just like to know why I am excluded from what should be such a joyous occasion of love and happiness. If it helps you answer, consider me non-denominational.
Tom, where do you come up with this stuff. This must be unique to mormonism. I can't begin to count the number of weddings I've been to where many of the participants were not of the faith that the two being married.
Ok, what if you don't want to be the priest or the godparent. What if you just want to witness one of the most joyous occasions in the life between a parent/child or relative or friend.
In any other church, you would be as welcome as any one participating in the actual ceremony. That's because the message of Christ was for all to hear, sinners and saints alike. He never excluded.
Is this a "Christian" requirement or merely a requirement of the mormon church. If it is a christian requirement, could you provide the underlying scripture?
What? And where does the Catholic church exclude people from joyous occasions?
Tom, be serious here. There are no questions because I could never be worthy unless I'm a mormon under your church standards. I am as unworthy as the non-tithing members who was excluded as well.
Tell me, how do you determine worthiness and what are we to be worthy of. This is where the lds posters on the board always abandone the conversation!
Where, could you provide a cite?
Again, what scriptures?
John 18:
19 The high priest then asked Jesus of his disciples, and of his doctrine.
20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.
21 Why askest thou me? ask them which heard me, what I have said unto them: behold, they know what I said.
Does that answer your question? Like I've said before - go with the original!
Don't even suggest that I have more faith in the Bible than I do in God! But my God said that His word would stand forever, so I just take Him at His word.Kevin Graham said:== If the Bible isn't reliable, it isn't God's word, and man is hopelessly lost.
Well, that is just silly to Mormon ears. So God is entirely dependent on a few scribes?
Sorry, but we put more faith in God than we do a book.
Your question made me ponder if we all mean the same definition when speaking of secrets.GodsWordisTrue said:[/font][/color]
I'm sorry, but I know so such thing. Are you accusing me of having seen your temple ceremonies? How could I, a lowly Christian, see those things done in secret?
I can see how our Temple ceremonies would be considered as such. I have considered "secret" to mean withholding information for selfish reasons. As for the Temple, the reasons are quite the opposite, as we want all to have the information we receive in the Temple.n.
- Kept hidden from knowledge or view; concealed.
- Dependably discreet.
- Operating in a hidden or confidential manner: a secret agent.
- Not expressed; inward: their secret thoughts.
- Not frequented; secluded: wandered about the secret byways of Paris.
- Known or shared only by the initiated: secret rites.
- Beyond ordinary understanding; mysterious.
- Containing information, the unauthorized disclosure of which poses a grave threat to national security.
- Something kept hidden from others or known only to oneself or to a few.
- Something that remains beyond understanding or explanation; a mystery.
- A method or formula on which success is based: The secret of this dish is in the sauce.
- Secret A variable prayer said after the Offertory and before the Preface in the Mass.
I cannot comment due to the sacred secrecy of the vows, washings, annointings, handshakes, and temple garments.Wrigley said:It would be funny if this super secret stuff in the temple is just a fancy recipe for jello.
Non-members are certainly not prepared to participate in the holiest of cerimonies, and in so doing they may misconstrue sacred things completely opposite to its real meaning. This happens all to often to members that really were not prepared themselves. The perceptions they derive may cause a hindrance to even accepting the basics, the same basics that were required to comprehend the higher order of the things of God.
Of course, as I have perceived from your posts, you likely think this is all rubbish. But in the scheme of God's plan, which is still preserved Biblically, one (including you) must go through a process to obtain a correct understanding of the things of God.
I hope that helps in understanding from our side of the mountain, the view of the valley.
Not all "current" Catholics, Baptists and Mormons are liers either. Stendahl was correct, because until we can prove who the liars are, we have to say "be careful, there is a potential here of deceit." One can have the ability to discern a liar, but discernment is a personal talent and cannot be proven to others.GodsWordisTrue said:Stendahl was mistaken. If a liar leaves a particular faith, he is not only liable but likely to lie about it. If an honest person leaves, he will most assuredly tell the truth. All ex-Catholics are certainly not liars. All ex-Baptists are certainly not liars. All ex-Mormons are certainly not liars. You can even learn about a religion from its ex-adherents.
Also, it makes it easier to follow sub-topics when you hit the "quote" link at the bottom of the post. That way the thread stays in order when viewing in the "hybrid thread" mode. The reply button at the upper left, and above the post window, is for a direct response to the original poster.
Thanks.
GodsWordisTrue said:Temple Mormon elitism at its best:
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Elitism:
- The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
- <LI type=a>The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
- Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.
You can highlight and delete a portion or all of the post, as I did to your post as an example.GodsWordisTrue said:What if ....long quote?
Years ago this quote did not make sense to me. I have reservations that my comment might do the same for you. But let's give it a try.GodsWordisTrue said:Joseph Fielding Smith Restrictions will be placed upon those who enter the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms, and even those in the celestial kingdom who do not get the exaltation; changes will be made in their bodies to suit their condition; and there will be no marrying or giving in marriage, nor living together of men and women, because of these restrictions." (Doctrines of Salvation, 2: 73.)
Not all in the Celestial Kingdom can have exaltation. What about eternal progression?
Not necessarily more sacred. Being baptized is what leads us to understanding and pursuing eternal marriage. It is one of the results and rewards of making covenants with God at baptism. All things in their proper order.GodsWordisTrue said:"Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage;but are appointed angels in heaven; which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
"For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever." (Doctrine & Covenants 132: 16-17)
I take it that marriage for time and eternity is more sacred than being baptized into the LDS church.
It seems that the common denominator in the difference of viewpoint is that you pre assume that this is the work of man. Fair enough! We believe it is the work of God. Yet, can you enter into our belief system via discussion and truly understand (if that is what you really want) ... our position when you carry with you your pre-assumptions?baker said:Ask those who are excluded. Yes, it is disastrous if it is being claimed that god wanted it that way!
Why do you excluded your "brothers and sisters" of Christ? It is the lds church making the division, not the brothers and sisters of Chirst. And certainly not Christ.
Kevin, what christian church do you know that excludes non-members from weddings. If it's "sacred" Christ would want all to hear!
Did your Baptist church exclude mormons from the wedding ceremony. Come on Kevin, use reason.
Now there's some great rationale. "Hey, we stand in judgement of our own members, so you shouldn't mind if we stand in judgement of you too"
Are you actually claiming that the Holy Ghost can only lead those who are LDS?MormonFriend said:The challenge is in the difference of accessing that information and understanding that information. The things of God are, and always will be a mystery to the natural man. The only hope a person has is to discern the eternal truths by the personal tutoring of the Holy Ghost. That cannot happen until the person has started the process of conversion, having committed by covenent with God to dedicate his life to changing his ways for God's ways.
Absolutly not! I am speaking generically that this is a principle that all Christians should recognize as the means to understand their doctrine. I am representing myself as a Christian and these Christian principles apply to our doctrine. Most of the readers I suspect will scoff at that, but if I claim to be Christian, I had better understand my beliefs by the Holy Ghost.skylark1 said:Are you actually claiming that the Holy Ghost can only lead those who are LDS?MF: The challenge is in the difference of accessing that information and understanding that information. The things of God are, and always will be a mystery to the natural man. The only hope a person has is to discern the eternal truths by the personal tutoring of the Holy Ghost. That cannot happen until the person has started the process of conversion, having committed by covenent with God to dedicate his life to changing his ways for God's ways.
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