flood of anti-Mormon sentiment

We are allowed coca-cola, pepsi, but are asked to avoid anything that can become addicting, like caffeine. the First Presidency has asked that we do this, because we are not to subject our bodies to anything that can possibly remove it from our control.

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I don't understand why coke and pepsi are allowed if you can't have caffeine. Also how can caffeine remove your body from your control?

So I will tell you a little about what I understand in the interim, but as Bishop Stendahl says, you must learn about a religion from its adherents because those who reject it are liable to bear false witness. I will attempt to not do this.

Well, that doesn't exactly make me excited to read his work, the above is a rediculous statement to say the least. Just because one a particular belief, does not mean they will lie about it....that is just flat out stupidity in thought.

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It is often better to ask an ex-POW or ex-Jehovah's Witness what their experiences were like than to ask Saddam Hussein or Jehovah's Witnesses.

There was a very thought-provoking poem written by Mary Howitt years and years ago. It goes like this:

"Will you walk into my parlor?" said the spider to the fly;
"'Tis the prettiest little parlor that ever you may spy.
The way into my parlor is up a winding stair,
And I have many curious things to show when you are there."
"Oh no, no," said the little fly; "to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair can ne'er come down again."


"I'm sure you must be weary, dear, with soaring up so high.
Well you rest upon my little bed?" said the spider to the fly.
"There are pretty curtains drawn around; the sheets are fine and thin,
And if you like to rest a while, I'll snugly tuck you in!"
"Oh no, no," said the little fly, "for I've often heard it said,
They never, never wake again who sleep upon your bed!"

Said the cunning spider to the fly: "Dear friend, what can I do
To prove the warm affection I've always felt for you?
I have within my pantry good store of all that's nice;
I'm sure you're very welcome - will you please to take a slice?
"Oh no, no," said the little fly; "kind sir, that cannot be:
I've heard what's in your pantry, and I do not wish to see!"

"Sweet creature!" said the spider, "you're witty and you're wise;
How handsome are your gauzy wings; how brilliant are your eyes!
I have a little looking-glass upon my parlor shelf;
If you'd step in one moment, dear, you shall behold yourself."
"I thank you, gentle sir," she said, "for what you're pleased to say,
And, bidding you good morning now, I'll call another day."

The spider turned him round about, and went into his den,
For well he knew the silly fly would soon come back again:
So he wove a subtle web in a little corner sly,
And set his table ready to dine upon the fly;
Then came out to his door again and merrily did sing:
"Come hither, hither, pretty fly, with pearl and silver wing;
Your robes are green and purple; there's a crest upon your head;
Your eyes are like diamond bright, but mine are dull as lead!"

Alas, alas! how very soon this silly little fly,
Hearing his wily, flattering words, came slowly flitting by;
With buzzing wings she hung aloft, then near and nearer grew,
Thinking only of her brilliant eyes and green and purple hue,
Thinking only of her crested head. Poor, foolish thing! at last
Up jumped the cunning spider, and fiercely held her fast;
He dragged her up his winding stair, into the dismal den -
Within his little parlor - but she ne'er came out again!

And now, dear little children, who may this story read,
To idle, silly flattering words I pray you ne'er give heed;
Unto an evil counselor close heart and ear and eye,
And take a lesson from this tale of the spider and the fly.

GodsWordisTrue said:

This is an icredibly rude post for someone who by his username implies he is a friend.

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In the true sense of the word "friend," and if what I pointed out to her is true, I cannot see letting a person deceive herself and consider myself a friend. Telling the truth is not rude. It may not always be pleasant.
If I am wrong, you will see me apologize, and send flowers if I have an address where she can receive them. I have apologized here before.

GodsWordisTrue said:

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I don't understand why coke and pepsi are allowed if you can't have caffeine. Also how can caffeine remove your body from your control?

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Coke and Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, etc. were not around when the revelation was given of what we call The Word of Wisdom. If Lord had included "Coke," then we would have had a great advantage in the stock market.

I have heard our Prophet declare that we should stay away from these drinks (because they can be habit forming and with other health issues, it is "wise" to stay away.) President Hinckley could make it an official "no-no," but I believe the Lord wants us to consider this counsel from the Doctine and Covenants.

26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

27 Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;

28 For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.

29 But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is ******.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section58:26 - 29)

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I would never point a finger at a LDS member for drinking coke. I know someone who takes a prescription amphetamine for ADD. He finds that he can get by with less drugs with a coke. As for the rest, they have to decide if the above counsel is applicable.

MormonFriend said:

In the true sense of the word "friend," and if what I pointed out to her is true, I cannot see letting a person deceive herself and consider myself a friend. Telling the truth is not rude. It may not always be pleasant.
If I am wrong, you will see me apologize, and send flowers if I have an address where she can receive them. I have apologized here before.

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Whether or not you see yourself as wrong or truthful, your post was rude. I'm sorry you feel the way you do. One needn't waste his money on flowers; a little kindness goes a long way.

I'd rather stich to Gods Word & not the counsel of man.

obediah001 said:

I'd rather stich to Gods Word & not the counsel of man.

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Excellent point, Obediah. And I don't indulge in caffeine anyway.

GodsWordisTrue said:

It is often better to ask an ex-POW or ex-Jehovah's Witness what their experiences were like than to ask Saddam Hussein or Jehovah's Witnesses.

There was a very thought-provoking poem written by Mary Howitt years and years ago. It goes like this:

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If I want to understand what J.W's. believe, I will ask a J.W. The POW has no application.

As for you poem, it is truly wise. If you care to see my perspective on how Satan deceives and flatters, please see my article on my CF homepage. Then we can chat on this.
Click on the link at the bottom of this post. Sorry that it is displayed as one long paragraph, somehow the submitting process changed the format.

Kevin Graham said:

== when I went to the Mormon Church as a visitor, my host (the soon-to-be DIL's mother) introduced me to people and told me in whispered tones afterward that they were a real fine family and they own their own business, etc. When I took a friend to my church recently I introduced them to my friends and didn't think to add that they were real fine folk.

Well, that settles it. To be sure, never in the history of Protestantism has one person complimented another Baptist with anything remotely similar to, "that is a fine family."

Naah, Perish the thought.

Seriously, you must be joking. I still get emails from old Baptist friends who keep describing Johnny Hunt (Minister of Woodstock Ga, Bapist Church) as "the godliest man I've ever met." Makes me wanna puke.

My ex-girlfriend's Mom is always describing one Baptist family member after another, according to the level of "Christianity" they exude.

"What a fine Christian" is a phrase heard only too often down here in the South. Though I don't think I've ever heard the phrase, "what a fine Mormon."

If there exists a problem with this attitude, I think it is the other way around.

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And to be totaly fair, don't you think that the DIL's mother was perhaps a bit nervous and wanting to make a good impression on her soon to be SIL's mother? I can relate to the scenario, and I have to salt my leather often. How does that prayer go? "...and dear Lord, please bless every word that leaves my mouth, for tomorrow I may have to eat them."

MormonFriend: In the true sense of the word "friend," and if what I pointed out to her is true, I cannot see letting a person deceive herself and consider myself a friend. Telling the truth is not rude. It may not always be pleasant.
If I am wrong, you will see me apologize, and send flowers if I have an address where she can receive them. I have apologized here before.

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GodsWordisTrue said:

Whether or not you see yourself as wrong or truthful, your post was rude. I'm sorry you feel the way you do. One needn't waste his money on flowers; a little kindness goes a long way.

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At the risk of seeming rude, I want to be a friend to you and illustrate how you are avoiding the point.

You did not address my statement: "...I cannot see letting a person deceive herself and consider myself a friend." Is there not a correct principle here? If your friend was terribly drunk and started for his car, how rude would you get to stop him if he refused to listen to reason?

Have you read many of Happy's posts? You will be amazed at the rudeness we have endured. Yet I think those that reply to her do so out of love that she will recognize someday. I am not one who can "sugar coat" my words under these circumstances, but love can be demonstrated even with harsh words. If I failed, then chalk it up to inexperience, but don't be sorry for how I feel, because you really don't know how I feel.

And I thought that sending flowers was "showing a little kindness," as well as making a statement of sorrow, humility, and apologies.

The bottom line is, she is loved.

Doc T said:

Doc: Could you please be more specific about the "consequence to "family events" if you do not attend these meetings"?

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Doc,

Do you really want me to go into this in detail or are you just trying to show a good face for the bretheren with your response.

Now, make no mistake, I would be happy to go into detail. Problem is, everytime I do, the lds posters seem to abandone the issue.

You tell me!

== are you just trying to show a good face for the bretheren

We could really do without this rhetoric Baker. You've been repeating this junk for awhile now.

== Problem is, everytime I do, the lds posters seem to abandone the issue.

Well, that is what you said on the BoM historicity thread too, but now Doc has been waiting on YOU to respond for a couple of days.

MF quoted :So I will tell you a little about what I understand in the interim, but as Bishop Stendahl says, you must learn about a religion from its adherents because those who reject it are liable to bear false witness. I will attempt to not do this.

I said: Well, that doesn't exactly make me excited to read his work, the above is a rediculous statement to say the least. Just because one a particular belief, does not mean they will lie about it....that is just flat out stupidity in thought.

MF stated: Sister Grace, I am dumbfounded.) You are consistent in changing the context of a statement to ease the burdon of your responsability to admit you are wrong. Or do you perhaps derive a conclusion before thinking about what was really said? (And now I am wondering how you will misconstrue this post. :scratch

Good grief, you do try to make something out of nothing don't you? I simply stated that it is rediculous that just because someone does not subscribe to a certain belief, that they would lie about. I stick by that. It is rediculous. Just because one leaves and denies the teachings of a perticular belief does not mean they are going to turn around and lie and make up stories about it. That is stupid to say the least.


Read again what Stendahl said: "...you must learn about a religion from its adherents because those who reject it are liable to bear false witness."

And now how you changed its context.

I did no such thing, he said that those who reject the beliefs are liable to lie about those beliefs and once again, that is just stupid.

"...Just because one doesn't embrace a particular belief, does not mean they will lie about it...."

Notice that you are substituting "liable" with "will."

Give me a break, you are fishing here. I stand by what I said.

Liable means: "Likely. Often used with reference to an unfavorable outcome: In a depression banks are liable to fail."

Pathetic to say the least. It is still a stupid statement to say that one is likely to lie about a belief just because they have left that belief and denounced it as truth.

"Will" means nothing can stop it from occuring.

I will go to the store today.....does this statement mean that NOTHING can stop it from occuring? Good grief. Pathetic

And you also substituted the word "reject" with "doesn't embrace."

And? Obviously if you have rejected something, you no longer embrace it. Seriously, I can't believe you actually spent time writing this reply.

If you followed this pattern when you were LDS, it is no wonder you couldn't comprehend our teachings. You try to make things say what you want them to say.

Lame attempt and trying to find a reason why I would leave your "one true church".

Grace

Stendahl was mistaken. If a liar leaves a particular faith, he is not only liable but likely to lie about it. If an honest person leaves, he will most assuredly tell the truth. All ex-Catholics are certainly not liars. All ex-Baptists are certainly not liars. All ex-Mormons are certainly not liars. You can even learn about a religion from its ex-adherents.

happyinhisgrace said:

grow up

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Thoughtful commentary, Grace..

Remember, I'm not the one giggling over hemlines and cleavage.

Now, a serious question for you. You are ex-LDS; can you tell me whether or not someone who is posthumously baptised can ever attain the highest level of the CK?

-spike-

spike said:

Thoughtful commentary, Grace..

Remember, I'm not the one giggling over hemlines and cleavage.

Now, a serious question for you. You are ex-LDS; can you tell me whether or not someone who is posthumously baptised can ever attain the highest level of the CK?

-spike-

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Hey, it looks like someone is trying to set a trap.

Who, me?

Trap or not, it's still a valid question..!

Wrigley said:

Hey, it looks like someone is trying to set a trap.

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That's a trap?

If someone is baptized for my second-great-grandfather will he be offered the opportunity to earn godhood/exaltation? How is that a trap? What's the answer?

spike said:

Thoughtful commentary, Grace..

Remember, I'm not the one giggling over hemlines and cleavage.

Now, a serious question for you. You are ex-LDS; can you tell me whether or not someone who is posthumously baptised can ever attain the highest level of the CK?

-spike-

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No, because there is no celestial kingdom in the lds sense of the Word. there is one heaven and one hell and having someone baptised in your name after you die will do nothing for you to get to heaven.

Grace

GodsWordisTrue said:

That's a trap?

If someone is baptized for my second-great-grandfather will he be offered the opportunity to earn godhood/exaltation? How is that a trap? What's the answer?

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I'm speculating that spike doesn't believe grace is a ex-mormon.

I believe I know the answer, but I'll hold off for now.