Flood, literal or not?

[Beastt]

Thank you --- but you're overlooking something: Jesus Himself confirmed the Flood, His Father promised to keep the story preserved, and even one of His disciples wrote about it.

Thank you. If this is true, it demonstrates one other thing to be true. Jesus was as easily fooled by fictional cultural tales as were the authors of the Bible and therefore, could not be God.

 

[Beastt]

If the Flood was just a local one, why was Noah and his family on the Ark for over a year?

I agree. The Bible in no way presents the flood as a local event. It specifically states in Genesis 7:19 that, "all the high hills that were under the Heaven were covered".

Which high hills aren't under the "whole Heaven"? It goes on to emphasize that everything on the earth was killed except for Noah and those with Noah. It is most certainly presented as a global flood, not a local flood.

And as a parable, it would make no sense since it would have God promising never again to do what he never did in the first place.

The only reasonable conclusion is that the flood story is in the Bible because the authors thought it was a true story. They thought they were influenced by the God they thought existed. They were wrong.

 

[AV1611VET]

You do understand the Christian Geologists who first falsified the global flood were doing exactly that don't you?

No --- I wasn't aware that Christian geologists falsified the global flood.

I assume you know that not only is there no evidence for this alleged global flood...

Only because you don't consider the written Word of God as evidence --- which is not my problem. It's a blindspot that unbelieving "scientists" like to hide behind.

...it is falsified by geology, paleontology, biogeography, archeology, biodiversity and other branches of science.

I wouldn't trust geologists, paleontologists, biogeographists, archaeologists, and other scientists to verify my mother's date of birth*, let alone tell me there was no global flood.

If there was a global flood God thoroughy covered it up by poofing away all the evidence of his horrible crime.

You're going to call it a "crime", and you expect Him to show you the evidence? ("Scientists" can't find the Ark, let alone the water that buoyed it up.)

Which brings up the question, why did He have His chosen people record it?

Several reasons; but one major one is that it is the judgement that ended the dispensation of Conscience.

Also, it tells us who came from where, via the line of Noah's sons.

The story of the Flood was used in the NT as an example of what the end-times are going to be like.

* My mother's date of birth was never verified.

 

[AV1611VET]

But let's take one step further back: Suppose you were dropped onto the planet earth without ever having heard of the Bible or God or anything. You were not told of any ancient stories or any myths of any kind.

Heaven help me if I was dropped onto this planet at Disneyland --- I'd think this planet was really messed up!

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

No --- I wasn't aware that Christian geologists falsified the global flood.

Long ago as you can read HERE, in an article by Evangelical Christian Geologist Davis Young. Everything we have learned about geology since shows that they were correct in rejecting the global flood as an explanation of the earth's geology.

Only because you don't consider the written Word of God as evidence --- which is not my problem. It's a blindspot that unbelieving "scientists" like to hide behind.

You are missing the point. If there really had been a global flood there should be lots of evidence and not only is there none there are many features of the earth's geology that are totally inconsistent with a global flood.

I wouldn't trust geologists, paleontologists, biogeographists, archaeologists, and other scientists to verify my mother's date of birth*, let alone tell me there was no global flood.

That's your problem.

You're going to call it a "crime", and you expect Him to show you the evidence? ("Scientists" can't find the Ark, let alone the water that buoyed it up.)

So are you saying He did hide the evidence of His crime?

Several reasons; but one major one is that it is the judgement that ended the dispensation of Conscience.

Also, it tells us who came from where, via the line of Noah's sons.

Except it is very clear from genetic studies that entire human race is not descended from a single inbred family 5,000 years ago.

The story of the Flood was used in the NT as an example of what the end-times are going to be like.

Exactly. It is a story meant to make a point and not necessarily a description of real event.

*

My mother's date of birth was never verified.

Which has to do with what?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Heaven help me if I was dropped onto this planet at Disneyland --- I'd think this planet was really messed up!

I can just see future archeologists escavating in what used to be Central Florida and concluding the 20th century humans worshipped a giant Mouse God that looked something like this.

 

[AV1611VET]

There you go again! Tut tut! What you mean, naturally, is that the Bible says that Jesus treated it as such. In fact, given that this same collection is all you have to support the idea that Jesus' word is worth anything at all, I don't know what the fuss is about.

Here's what it's all about: anyone and their brother can come to me and say anything about anything.

I'm not interested. I want to see it --- in writing.

Don't show me Noah's Ark, the Shroud of Turin, the Spear of Longimanus, Jesus' empty tomb, etc.

I want the truth --- in writing.

If someone came up to me and said, "Thus saith the Lord, thou shalt win the next U.S. Chess Open", I would walk away - (and probably not enter it).

 

[AV1611VET]

And even if you can't show that your co-author exists, you'll assert that he does and that part of what went into the translation should be credited to him -- thereby, attempting to garner greater authority for your own opinions and beliefs.

I can't show my great, great, great, grandmother existed, but I know she did.

This sounds very much like the way the Bible was written... and the way the Qur'an was written... and the way Oahspe was written... and the way the Book of Mormon was written... and the documents of David Koresh... and so on, and so on, and so on.

None of the abovementioned books fools a Christian, who knows that nothing was written after 96 AD --- period.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I want the truth --- in writing.

If someone came up to me and said, "Thus saith the Lord, thou shalt win the next U.S. Chess Open", I would walk away - (and probably not enter it).

And yet if they write it down...

 

[AV1611VET]

And yet if they write it down...

No dice --- (remember: 96 AD).

 

[JohnR7]

Which high hills aren't under the "whole Heaven"?

Do you know what "high hills" are? I can tell you exactly what they are. They were created by the forward progression of the glaciers. Of course when the glaciers melted the water had to go up over the top of them. They were one of the barriers holding back the water as it melted.

 

[LewisWildermuth]

A mere parable????

One of the strongest teaching tools ever invented and you dismiss its power in favor of literalism?

Was Jesus a poor teacher for using almost exclusively “mere parables?”

 

[Steezie]

A mere parable????

One of the strongest teaching tools ever invented and you dismiss its power in favor of literalism?

Was Jesus a poor teacher for using almost exclusively “mere parables?”

The logistical imposibility of many of the stories in the bible would seem to indicate that many of them are in fact parables.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Here's what it's all about: anyone and their brother can come to me and say anything about anything.

I'm not interested. I want to see it --- in writing.

Don't show me Noah's Ark, the Shroud of Turin, the Spear of Longimanus, Jesus' empty tomb, etc.

I want the truth --- in writing.

If someone came up to me and said, "Thus saith the Lord, thou shalt win the next U.S. Chess Open", I would walk away - (and probably not enter it).

Alright then:

The deity you worship came to me in a vision. He told me, personally, that contemporary Judaeo-Christianity isn't quite what he had hoped for. In his words, 'seriously, guys, cut it out!'.

Point? It's in writing, so, by your logic, you must accept the above.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

A mere parable????

One of the strongest teaching tools ever invented and you dismiss its power in favor of literalism?

Was Jesus a poor teacher for using almost exclusively “mere parables?”

Parables are just stories that allude to a desired 'moral of the story'. You know what's more 'powerful'? Getting to the point.

 

[AV1611VET]

Alright then:

The deity you worship came to me in a vision. He told me, personally, that contemporary Judaeo-Christianity isn't quite what he had hoped for. In his words, 'seriously, guys, cut it out!'.

Point? It's in writing, so, by your logic, you must accept the above.

And I shall repeat Post 170:

No dice --- (remember: 96 AD).

 

[Wiccan_Child]

And I shall repeat Post 170:

Yea, I never did get what that meant. What happened in 96 CE then?

 

[Beastt]

Do you know what "high hills" are? I can tell you exactly what they are. They were created by the forward progression of the glaciers. Of course when the glaciers melted the water had to go up over the top of them. They were one of the barriers holding back the water as it melted.

Aside from the fact that high hills are hills formed by any means, of significant elevation, mind demonstrating how you can have a flood which involves every "high hill", (even by your definition), which isn't global?

 

[Nathan Poe]

And I shall repeat Post 170:

So, anything written before 96 AD is absolute truth?

 

[Beastt]

A mere parable????

One of the strongest teaching tools ever invented and you dismiss its power in favor of literalism?

Was Jesus a poor teacher for using almost exclusively “mere parables?”

What do you suppose the lesson is in telling a story about God flooding all of the Earth to kill every living thing except for a minimal "seed group" with which to renew life, and then promising that he'll never do it again?

It's a bit like telling your child the story of a parent who spanked his child, got carried away, fractured several bones and then promised he'd never do it again. What lesson is the child supposed to extract?