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Flood, literal or not?

Beastt

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Only because you don't consider the written Word of God as evidence --- which is not my problem. It's a blindspot that unbelieving "scientists" like to hide behind.
Fine. Show us the written word of God. Your problem will be in finding it since God hasn't ever written anything. A number of men have written a number of books and claimed they were representing God. But if one applies scrutiny to these writings instead of blindly accepting the unverified and extraordinary claim, it is always found that the claim holds no credibility.

So where is this "written word of God"? It's most certainly not the Bible which doesn't even demonstrate any accurate understanding of the configuration of the solar system.

All bibles are written by men. Not a single one has ever been written by any god.
 
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thaumaturgy

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No --- I wasn't aware that Christian geologists falsified the global flood.

Most of the early geologists were hoping to fit all of the Biblical creation story into the rocks. It caused some of them great consternation, not the least of which would be the very religious Nicolaus Steno.


I wouldn't trust geologists, paleontologists, biogeographists, archaeologists, and other scientists to verify my mother's date of birth*, let alone tell me there was no global flood.

Why is that? Is it because the geologists have actually been looking at the real data in the real rocks for about 400 years now and have failed to find evidence for the Global Flood? What has Creation Science done in that time other than to find outliers in the data and try to poke holes in it, neglecting the fact that the core of the theories is sound?
 
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FishFace

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No dice --- (remember: 96 AD).

What are you talking about? The earliest fragment of the New Testament is from a hundred years after that date. On what basis do you say that it was preserved perfectly between whenever it was originally written and when we start to find it?
 
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AV1611VET

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Yea, I never did get what that meant. What happened in 96 CE then?

Inspiration ended --- John was the last of the writers of the Word of God.

The Bible was completed.
 
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AV1611VET

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So, anything written before 96 AD is absolute truth?

If it was inspired.

2 Peter 1:21 said:
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were [inspired] by the Holy Ghost.

holy men of God --- these are approximately 40 men who were "hand-picked" by God to write the Scriptures.

They are one of the most unique fraternities in history.
 
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AV1611VET

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Fine. Show us the written word of God.







Beastt said:
Your problem will be in finding it since God hasn't ever written anything.

I'm sure Pharaoh thought that, too.

Beastt said:
A number of men have written a number of books and claimed they were representing God. But if one applies scrutiny to these writings instead of blindly accepting the unverified and extraordinary claim, it is always found that the claim holds no credibility.

I don't even have to apply scrutiny to something someone claims is the Word of God. (See Wiccan Child's post above.)

Beastt said:
So where is this "written word of God"?

The autographs went they way of entropy.

Beastt said:
It's most certainly not the Bible which doesn't even demonstrate any accurate understanding of the configuration of the solar system.

Neither did Pluto.

Beastt said:
All bibles are written by men. Not a single one has ever been written by any god.

[bible]2 Peter 1:21[/bible]
 
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AV1611VET

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Most of the early geologists were hoping to fit all of the Biblical creation story into the rocks. It caused some of them great consternation, not the least of which would be the very religious Nicolaus Steno.

Good for Nicolaus Steno --- instead, try fitting the rocks into the Biblical creation story.

thaumaturgy said:
Why is that? Is it because the geologists have actually been looking at the real data in the real rocks for about 400 years now and have failed to find evidence for the Global Flood?

You know my advice here --- need I repeat it? --- (Look harder!)
 
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AV1611VET

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What are you talking about? The earliest fragment of the New Testament is from a hundred years after that date. On what basis do you say that it was preserved perfectly between whenever it was originally written and when we start to find it?

God's promise ---

[bible]Psalm 12:6-7[/bible]
 
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Beastt

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How do you know it isn't the Qur'an, or Oahspe, or the Book of Mormon? Those books all hold the same claim the Bible holds. They all present fulfilled prophecy. How do you separate the Bible out and proclaim it and only it as the word of God?

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You can hold any book up to it's own word and you'll always find that it says what it says. If you apply the same type of selective criteria to Mother Goose that you apply to the Bible, you'll find that Mother Goose says exactly what it says too. Does that make it the word of God?

I'm sure Pharaoh thought that, too.
He was, in all probability, completely correct. Have you ever noticed how whenever you wish to present authenticity for the Bible the only source you cite is the Bible? Are you familiar with the term, "circular reasoning"? Do you understand why it is illogical?

I don't even have to apply scrutiny to something someone claims is the Word of God. (See Wiccan Child's post above.)
Then you needn't apply scrutiny to the writings of David Koresh, or of John Newbrough or of Joseph Smith or Muhammed or dozens of others. They all claim to be the "word of god". But they contain contradictive elements.

The autographs went they way of entropy.
You're not making any sense here. You're telling everyone that anything written down and proclaimed to be the word of God means more than physical evidence. Anyone can write anything and claim it as God's word. This has been done time and time again throughout history. If you can't recognize how easy it is to simply jot down your own ideas and say you were inspired by God then you can never lay any claim to holding or understanding truth. People can write out a check and sign someone else's name. People can write their own thoughts and claim it came from God. Without applying scrutiny, you have no hope of knowing the truth.

Neither did Pluto.
How many times do you have to lose the same argument?

[bible]2 Peter 1:21[/bible]
Peter was a man. Nothing he wrote has any greater validity, just because he wrote it, than what I write or what you write or what Koresh wrote. To hold a claim to validity, writing must contain a demonstrable truth. When what can be found can be shown to constitute untruth, any claim to validity is null and void. If you ever want to hold your claims as representative of integrity, then you have to consider the fact that what you want to believe is the word of God may well be nothing of the sort. It holds no exclusive claim. It offers nothing of proof for the claim. It even offers multiple lines of evidence to show that it isn't the word of God.

The Bible was written by men -- just men. These men thought they were inspired by God, just as have so many other men throughout history -- men like David Koresh, John Newbrough, Joseph Smith and Muhammed. In the case of the Bible an additional group of men sifted through many writings and arbitrarily sorted the writings out into that which they selected to be the word of God and that which they selected to be other than the word of God. Then what these men decided was the word of God was all bound together and offered up as the word of God. Then you, without any desire or recognition of the need for scrutiny were introduced to it, noted that people told you it was the word of God and you simply won't listen to anything else. Had you been born in the middle east, you'd now be holding the Qur'an in exactly the same position you hold the Bible. Had you been born in Utah, you'd likely be holding the Book of Mormon up and telling us all that it is the true word of God, because it is claimed to be by its author.

An unverified claim is no better than a lie. And a claim which is shown to be wrong, is an untruth. Many of the Bible's claims are wrong.
 
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Psudopod

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Quote:Originally Posted by Beastt
It's most certainly not the Bible which doesn't even demonstrate any accurate understanding of the configuration of the solar system.

Neither did Pluto.

You're right! Pluto did not know anything about the configutation of the solar system.

This is, of course, becuase Pluto is an inanimate lump of rock incapable of concious though. So it's not really surprising is, it?

Now, was there a valid argument against the point?
 
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FishFace

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Good for Nicolaus Steno --- instead, try fitting the rocks into the Biblical creation story.

That would be no more productive than trying to fit the rocks into the creation story outlined in the Silmarillion.
You have yet to give us a method that can tell the difference between a piece of text claiming to be the Word of God, and a piece of text that is the word of God.
I suppose that's not true, you've said that anything written by x, y and z is "inspired." So, aside from your own biases, what justified reason do you have?
 
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