Flirting = deceitful?

[broken_one]

Wouldn't that make your problem prostitution?

That would mean that subconsciously we're all prostituting ourselves.

 

[Obzocky]

---

 

[SweetDee]

Not prostitution, it's more akin to simply giving yourself as a present should they wish to accept it.

That's what I have always told myself before I start my day.

 

[broken_one]

Not prostitution, it's more akin to simply giving yourself as a present should they wish to accept it.

I like that idea a lot, actually.

I also wish that I could stop being so nervous when I'm around beautiful women. Sometimes I'm randomly not nervous, and on those occasions I do quite well. Other times...not so much.

 

[Blank123]

blind post.

hm. well I think when you're attracted to someone there's really no way to avoid flirting with them. Its just a natural process of getting to know someone. It doesn't have to be over the top "how YOU doin'" type flirting, but any obvious signs of interest will be taken as flirtation.

If you feel like you're being fake and misleading in how you're attempting to flirt, then chances are you're forcing it and you're trying to be someone you're not so yes I would agree you shouldn't do it. I'll just say what every other woman here has been telling you since the day you joined: be yourself. women appreciate sincerity in a man and can pick up on it when he's not being true to himself.

 

[MehGuy]

Yeah some flirting is just awful.
I can't stand it.
Actually most flirting is probably awful.

 

[white dove]

So flirting counts as lying now too? First I can't tell my kids about santa claus, now this... I don't even know what to think anymore!

I just don't know what to believe anymore!

 

[broken_one]

blind post.

hm. well I think when you're attracted to someone there's really no way to avoid flirting with them. Its just a natural process of getting to know someone. It doesn't have to be over the top "how YOU doin'" type flirting, but any obvious signs of interest will be taken as flirtation.

If you feel like you're being fake and misleading in how you're attempting to flirt, then chances are you're forcing it and you're trying to be someone you're not so yes I would agree you shouldn't do it. I'll just say what every other woman here has been telling you since the day you joined: be yourself. women appreciate sincerity in a man and can pick up on it when he's not being true to himself.

This has really come from two things:

1. What I do normally isn't working, so I need to do more, be more active I guess, and it's not comfortable to me. But it's that or something that hasn't been working, so yeah. Hopefully there is some middle ground, though. And that's what I'm trying to explore in this thread.

2. Actually there's two points for this one.

2a. When I'm myself (like myself myself), people don't like me as much. I already have enough issues already with my stupid head and such a high level of physical attraction, I really don't need to scare off any more women. I feel like there are only a very few out there that would like me as I am right now, and if I accidentally did something dumb (like say something unpopular) I'll just be done. Like, no mas. Forced to join a monastery or something.

2b. One of the books I got was on not becoming a people-pleaser, and standing up for myself and being my own personality. Maybe that will help about this, or at least give me some tenacity to have me do my own thing. Because maybe after I scare people off, more people will show up. I don't know, because I'm not doing that just yet.

 

[MehGuy]

Sean I think you may be going for women who are too much over your league. I wouldn't expect less from a woman over your league than how you yourself dismisses a woman who is under yours.

Do you like the feeling of being rejected? I know some men do, and it can be hard to really know unless you do a lot of soul searching, but it just seems like you are obsessed with leagues and rejection and the like. Especially when you referred to certain women as "left overs" and "scraps". If you do have it, I'd advice using it in moderation.

 

[broken_one]

Sean I think you may be going for women who are too much over your league. I wouldn't expect less from a woman over your league than how you yourself dismisses a woman who is under yours.

Do you like the feeling of being rejected? I know some men do, and it can be hard to really know unless you do a lot of soul searching, but it just seems like you are obsessed with leagues and rejection and the like. Especially when you referred to certain women as "left overs" and "scraps". If you do have it, I'd advice using it in moderation.

Good job taking my quotes out of context, Josh. Since you're often misunderstood, I thought you'd empathize but I guess not. I was referring in "scraps" to women who aren't ready to put themselves into relationships by still being in love with someone else. Oftentimes this other person has messed her up so badly that she's not all there, she's not willing to love you the right way, she is a "left-over" who can't seem to separate herself from her ex. How that has to do with attraction is nothing at all. It's all personality, and yes it's a turnoff as a personality but that's about it. Do you stop loving those people? No. Do you treat them like they were already treated? No. If people stop looking at buzzwords and start looking at what I'm actually saying, maybe people here wouldn't hate me so much.

You can't help who you're attracted to. I'm only in a different "league" because sometimes I feel like I'm not good enough for who I'm attracted to. Sometimes they're attracted to me back, sometimes not. But it's this feeling of a separation that causes the problems for me. If someone was just like me, then there's nothing to fear or get nervous about. You put yourself under someone, they have all the power. They can toss you aside, they can do whatever they want because they essentially control you. And I'm trying to get it back.

 

[MehGuy]

Good job taking my quotes out of context, Josh. Since you're often misunderstood, I thought you'd empathize but I guess not. I was referring in "scraps" to women who aren't ready to put themselves into relationships by still being in love with someone else. Oftentimes this other person has messed her up so badly that she's not all there, she's not willing to love you the right way, she is a "left-over" who can't seem to separate herself from her ex. How that has to do with attraction is nothing at all. It's all personality, and yes it's a turnoff as a personality but that's about it. Do you stop loving those people? No. Do you treat them like they were already treated? No. If people stop looking at buzzwords and start looking at what I'm actually saying, maybe people here wouldn't hate me so much.

You can't help who you're attracted to. I'm only in a different "league" because sometimes I feel like I'm not good enough for who I'm attracted to. Sometimes they're attracted to me back, sometimes not. But it's this feeling of a separation that causes the problems for me. If someone was just like me, then there's nothing to fear or get nervous about. You put yourself under someone, they have all the power. They can toss you aside, they can do whatever they want because they essentially control you. And I'm trying to get it back.

It's more your choice of the buzzwords. A lot of this can be done in sub-conscience, I want you to take a long and hard look with what I am saying.

Who are you attracted to exactly? Can you post some pictures of women for honest perspective? I just don't want to see you lead people in wild goose chases.

 

[MarisCrane]

Women aren't idiots. Everyone's going to talk themselves up, or get their wingman/woman to. I think as long as you aren't being ridiculous with the embellishment (don't say you're Spanish royalty if you're not), you should be ok.

 

[broken_one]

It's more your choice of the buzzwords. A lot of this can be done in sub-conscience, I want you to take a long and hard look with what I am saying.

Who are you attracted to exactly? Can you post some pictures of women for honest perspective? I just don't want to see you lead people in wild goose chases.

That I'm occasionally a bit overly blunt and speak about complex things plainly, this I know. This isn't the worst thing I've said, and nor will it be the last. I wouldn't be a good politician, at any rate.

First of all, I'm not going to post pictures of girls I know without telling them. And I doubt if I asked them, they would let me post a picture on some randomy internet page. So I can't be like "LOOK, SHE'S CUTE AND A REAL PERSON! GO CLIMB A TREE, CF!!", no matter how much I'd like to and feel more vindicated about myself.

What I do know is that I've apparently amassed a reputation among people who like me that my girlfriends and "romantic involvements" are always really cute. Does that mean anything? I don't know. Because these dudes like different girls than I do, too. I feel good that I receive compliments like that, but I can't be like BOOM HOT CHICKS LIKE ME NAO.

I could post pictures of celebrities that I think are cute if you like, but the problem would be that they're celebrities. I mean you could get an idea, but real people don't necessarily look like celebrities because they're not celebrities. But I could do that.

 

[broken_one]

Women aren't idiots. Everyone's going to talk themselves up, or get their wingman/woman to. I think as long as you aren't being ridiculous with the embellishment (don't say you're Spanish royalty if you're not), you should be ok.

This kind of advice is what I like. It's simple and to the point, and sounds definitely true. Thanks.

 

[MehGuy]

That I'm occasionally a bit overly blunt and speak about complex things plainly, this I know. This isn't the worst thing I've said, and nor will it be the last. I wouldn't be a good politician, at any rate.

First of all, I'm not going to post pictures of girls I know without telling them. And I doubt if I asked them, they would let me post a picture on some randomy internet page. So I can't be like "LOOK, SHE'S CUTE AND A REAL PERSON! GO CLIMB A TREE, CF!!", no matter how much I'd like to and feel more vindicated about myself.

What I do know is that I've apparently amassed a reputation among people who like me that my girlfriends and "romantic involvements" are always really cute. Does that mean anything? I don't know. Because these dudes like different girls than I do, too. I feel good that I receive compliments like that, but I can't be like BOOM HOT CHICKS LIKE ME NAO.

I could post pictures of celebrities that I think are cute if you like, but the problem would be that they're celebrities. I mean you could get an idea, but real people don't necessarily look like celebrities because they're not celebrities. But I could do that.

Well yeah I'm not telling you to post pics of people you know lol. But you could go find some unknown ppl on facebook or something and post them, though that may not be as easy as I think.



I still think you need to think about what I suggested earlier, and even if you do have it, it isn't necessarily a bad thing, it can be quite great if you handle it properly. And it is defiantly something I don't look down on people for. Maybe you don't have it, but if on the off chance you did and apparently one of your friends think the list sounds like you *MSN convo I had awhile ago* It's something worth checking out because basically you pretty much hit the nail on the head with a very wide range of problems. You wouldn't imagine how deep rooted it can get.

Can you relate to this girl?

I don't like being happy? - Yahoo! Answers

I can personally myself, though I don't care for physical pain. I mean not everyone will be exactly like her but can share similar traits and be less or more severe in other areas.

 

[broken_one]

Well yeah I'm not telling you to post pics of people you know lol. But you could go find some unknown ppl on facebook or something and post them, though that may not be as easy as I think.



I still think you need to think about what I suggested earlier, and even if you do have it, it isn't necessarily a bad thing, it can be quite great if you handle it properly. And it is defiantly something I don't look down on people for. Maybe you don't have it, but if on the off chance you did and apparently one of your friends think the list sounds like you *MSN convo I had awhile ago* It's something worth checking out because basically you pretty much hit the nail on the head with a very wide range of problems. You wouldn't imagine how deep rooted it can get.

Can you relate to this girl?

I don't like being happy? - Yahoo! Answers

I can personally myself, though I don't care for physical pain. I mean not everyone will be exactly like her but can share similar traits and be less or more severe in other areas.

That woman is seriously insane. Like, someone needs to get her help.

I recognize that I like to sabotage, so I try to do it the least amount as possible, or as much as everyone else does it. I like being the center of attention, but not in this way. I definitely seek the approval of others, but I like being approved by resting on my laurels, not being down in the dumps. But like wow man, that stuff is messed up.

And it would be incredibly hard to find pictures like that, lol.

 

[MehGuy]

That woman is seriously insane. Like, someone needs to get her help.

I recognize that I like to sabotage, so I try to do it the least amount as possible, or as much as everyone else does it. I like being the center of attention, but not in this way. I definitely seek the approval of others, but I like being approved by resting on my laurels, not being down in the dumps. But like wow man, that stuff is messed up.

And it would be incredibly hard to find pictures like that, lol.

Lol I actually like that woman. If you don't count her developed eating disorder or the fact she likes to cut herself I'm no different than her.

I do kinda like her though, especially with her comments to the Yahoo posters who are trying to insult her. Not exactly the smartest move on their part lol.

Additional Details

having a rough night, andy, dear?
please don't displace your anger.
and thank you. i hope you live a happy, wonderfully fulfilling life, love


Maybe it's a little controversial but I don't think she should change a whole lot. You get mass amounts of energy and you really can live a wonderful and fulfilling life with it, and I definitely do not think she is crazy. Just may need to take a few paces back.

Well judging from your reaction to that link, I"ll say you are not in the same level as her, but still a little sabotage can go a long way. This stuff should be viewed as a cancer and every last cancer cell needs to be destroyed or used in a more productive way and monitored.

Well if you can't find pictures than fine. And if you are already getting woman you are attracted too then I guess it doesn't really matter. But just take a long hard look at what I said and see if it's causing any problems.

 

[broken_one]

Okay, back to the topic.

To recap: I like my personality, tolerate how I look, but I feel like when I'm flirting these girls look better than I do and that makes me feel uncomfortable because I feel like I'm being dishonest about how I look to them and also omitting some various small other problems I'm obviously not mentioning up-front, and I feel they can see that dishonesty as well. Though I would tell them if we were dating or something, though.

I hate that if I ask "am I attractive?" I'm either going to get lip service or if it's a truthful answer, it's not at my "target demographic" (because I'm not attracted to any of yous, I'm really sorry but it's not really a choice...you know?). I'm personally cool with how I look, because it's how I look. But to others, that's the problem. And cue the feelings of dishonesty.

 

[Wren]

If I get a couple responses over what I last wrote, then we can end this thread pretty quickly.

OR people can find me books about the topic (Novella... ).

to you, sir.

Yes. Because Shelly knows all about cars.


I disagree. Putting yourself in the situation where you could flirt would be doing that. Flirting is selling it to other people.

(Yes, apparently I'm selling my body. lol.)

Yeah, that certainly is my area of expertise. Sorry, I have nothing useful to add. I just got woken up (but am too awake to go back to sleep) and my brain isn't fully functional.

 

[K9_Trainer]

Sean, I think a lot of this is just your low self esteem kinda trying to sneak in. And do remember that your environment is not the best as far as finding mature women is concerned. A real woman is not going to disown you for doing something stupid or unpopular. The people you are around seem like little kids still in jr high by the way you describe them sometimes.

Anyway, on to the self esteem issues, I've honestly never thought of flirting as akin to the behavior of a used car salesman trying to sell a focus like its a ferrari. If you feel unworthy, and feel like you don't deserve a relationship with the woman you are flirting with, then it makes sense why you feel like you're trying to sell yourself.

Just try not to focus so much on your downsides, and I know this might be difficult, but try not to rate women, or put them in leagues, or do anything that pertains to entertaining the possibility of a relationship with her. When you encounter an attractive woman, enjoy her as a person first, and worry about a relationship later, there's no point in worrying yourself over a potential relationship when you hardly know her.