Fleeing to Mars not of God

[truthpls]

While, like most people, I am prone to lie on occassions, I have never knowingly done so any forum. I can't explain it. It is what it is.

Thank you for accompanying your assertion with a substantial body of research and data. Very useful. I'm sure you are aware that curing homelessness involves much more than just building more homes, but it is certainly a good start and, as you said, there would still be money left over.
We agree that more should be done to reduce and eventually eliminate homelessness. What we disagree about is where the money is to come from.

I'm easy. There is about a trillion a year spent on the military, maybe snag half of that to start?

You point to the space budget. I point - in US terms - to the cosmetics industry, with $50 billion a year catering to vanity and the pet industry at $152 billion a year, $65 billion of it on pet food. Now I grant you that pets can provide emotional support for many, can be educational for children, etc. but space research also offers benefits.

Beauty Industry Statistics 2025 (Cosmetic Market Size)

Uncover the latest beauty industry statistics. Explore trends in skincare, makeup, and haircare. Gain insights into consumer spending!

www.demandsage.com

US pet food, treat industry amasses $65 billion in sales

The APPA released its “2025 State of the Industry Report,” detailing record-high sales for the US pet industry, growth in cat ownership, and evolving consumer purchasing trends.

www.petfoodprocessing.net

Great, we need a 'doge' to grab a lot of that waste too!

Of course. I know this is your position, but as we have already established, it is not mine. And may I say if God is limiting man's ability to kill all life on Earth it is not evident. We are probably wiping out species faster than we are recognising hitherto unidientified ones. Much of the research that you seem so negative about is targeted on countering this man-made extinction event.

No problem. ALL kinds of animals were created in a day! If some are not here when He comes, it is easy peasy to create new ones! As for God not allowing man to kill all mankind, that would not be 'evident' to the untrained eye (or even the trained eye)

And I favour increasing our understanding of the world we live in, learning to live more harmoniously with out neighbours (which means everyone), respecting and supporting all other life on the planet.

There is no possibility of sinful men doing that. Only by having God inside of men can that happen. That will never happen until He returns to the planet to rule. Meanwhile the saved people with the Almighty inside of them are a minority. After He returns we will be the only ones on the planet.

Achieve that I suspect you would find suprsiingly little evidence of sin. It seems to me some of our goals are the same, we just use a different vocabulary.

I realize that all the good we wish for will remain pi in the sky until men accept Jesus. Man can't save himself

I had moved on to talking about all forms of research, not just space research. I may be mistaken, but you seem negative about a lot of scientific endeavours.

I do not trust men in the current sinful state of the world, no. History proves me correct. Is there some good done with research of things like covid and other plagues? Yes. Was that misused to grab power and oppress people? Yes. Can airplanes be good? We probably would say yes. Yet they dropped atomic bombs and killed hundreds of thousands of people, children and women and men. No matter what science comes along, we can rely on sinful men abusing it. therefore science is not the answer.

Again, I had moved on to other types of research, but - as an example - India is achieving significant improvements in crop yields through satellite observations. People rendered homeless by natural disasters anywhere on the planet can be aided in recovery form satellite images.

India also is nuclear armed, no? If they get into it with Pakistan or China or etc, I suspect that the good from better crop yields (even if they were passed along to benefit the deplorables) would be greatly outweighed by the bad. There is no chance man will or can save himself. Period.

Would you provide your single best example of such misuse for discussion?

Yes, they have 'deduced' that creation is not really creation, but a result of some invented long series of cosmic flukes and crashes and explosions etc!

I was not speaking about the genetic manipulation of food, but our understanding of plant genetics which gives us the ability to enhance food value and yield by natural means. I am European, so I am well aware of the contrast between European and American regulations on food. (NB: When I say I am European I mean I am Scottish and English and British and, ultimately, African since that is the home continent for all of us.)

Actually I suspect the garden of Eden was near Israel. But I understand that you mean as far as science can tell.
Having an ability to 'enhance' food probably also gives man the ability to tinker badly with food etc etc. Since man is fallen and in sin, we can bet that whatever science comes along, he will abuse it. The problem is the human heart, not in more or less science advances.

I have never been a fan of NASA's ability to get things done economically. If you wish you could certainly fight tooth and nail to have your government abandon all their manned space flight efforts, but especially Mars exploration/settlement. From my perspective that won't be a problem, since the Chinese certainly, the Indians probably and the Europeans perhaps, will go ahead.

The US is not 'my' government. I have no expectations of a lot of good from them either. Mankind is fallen and in sin, and it would probably be a waste of time and breath to ask them to be good. But whatever they all do, it can be known that it is not saving us or of God.

As the Apollo moon landing program cost about 20% of what the Vietnam war cost, and the war represented - on average - about 20% of defence spending over that period. Put another way, there are multiple things we could cut that would allow that house building program that we would both welcome.

Bingo. Too bad the heart of men is desperately wicked though eh?

 

[truthpls]

How do you imagine that happening?

I do not imagine Him allowing it to happen. The days will be shortened, and He will step in before it can happen. So, basically, if that doomsday clock were correct, it just tells us we are nearing His return!

 

[Ophiolite]

Too bad the heart of men is desperately wicked though eh?

And there you have the fundamental difference. I don't believe in your God, but I do have a great respect for teachings of the man you consider to be God incarnate. I believe, at least as he is presented in the Gospels, that he was a good man. And I believe there have been and will be many other good men like him. And a much greater mass who try to be good, who try to be better, often in a fumbling, ineffective way, stumbling and bumbling in the semi-darkness, but working gradually towards a dawn. I'm an optimist. I shall never live to see that dawn; homo sapiens may not make it to see it, but since I accept the reality of the evolution you seem to reject I have confidence our descendants will, whatever their species. In the meantime I shall try not to do anything that will reduce that possibility.

I'll leave the last words to you if you wish, but I've said all I needed to say.

 

[Desk trauma]

I do not imagine Him allowing it to happen.

What do we have at our disposal that could accomplish eradication of all life on earth that your deity is stopping us from making use of?

we are nearing His return!

Said every generation of Christians for nearly 2,000 years but totes different this time around.

 

[truthpls]

And there you have the fundamental difference. I don't believe in your God, but I do have a great respect for teachings of the man you consider to be God incarnate. I believe, at least as he is presented in the Gospels, that he was a good man.

How could a good man say this?

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

If that was a lie, He would be bad

And I believe there have been and will be many other good men like him. And a much greater mass who try to be good, who try to be better, often in a fumbling, ineffective way, stumbling and bumbling in the semi-darkness, but working gradually towards a dawn.

Jesus did not try to be good He was good. Sinless. God. No one who ever tried to be good succeeded.

I'm an optimist. I shall never live to see that dawn; homo sapiens may not make it to see it, but since I accept the reality of the evolution you seem to reject I have confidence our descendants will, whatever their species. In the meantime I shall try not to do anything that will reduce that possibility.

I accepted the realty of evolution as well. Evolving and adapting and reproducing and etc are part of how He created things. ( it does not replace creation but is only part of creation)

 

[truthpls]

What do we have at our disposal that could accomplish eradication of all life on earth that your deity is stopping us from making use of?

We have hands, and sticks. These days we even have womd. Who knows what else we do or will have that would do the trick as well?

Said every generation of Christians for nearly 2,000 years but totes different this time around.

The time was never known. The fact that He would return and that He will rule earth, and that earth will be here has not changed. So IF the doomsday clock was correct then His coming must also be imminent. Why? Because He decides the fate of man and earth.

 

[Desk trauma]

We have hands, and sticks. These days we even have womd. Who knows what else we do or will have that would do the trick as well?

Should have expected a non answer.

The time was never known. The fact that He would return and that He will rule earth, and that earth will be here has not changed. So IF the doomsday clock was correct then His coming must also be imminent. Why? Because He decides the fate of man and earth.

Yes like I said, totes different this time, for really real unlike the last 2,000 years worth of it being imminent.

 

[truthpls]

Should have expected a non answer.

It was a thorough reply actually.
Then also there seems to be coming a time when men suddenly kill other people.

Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword. Rev 6:4

Sounds like night of the zombies or something. Then there are plagues. Many of those are man made and they have some apparently with an extremely high death ratio. Then there are the beasts of the earth (that could include insects rats birds etc etc) that will kill men. Whether God orders them to, or whether some bio engineered weapon went wrong who knows? Let's not forget the nuclear weapons, they could kill most of the people some suggest. Russia announced some new weapon I think I recall lately that is conventional that destroys greatly using some sort of fire. Then there ware advanced weapons we probably do not yet know about. Then there are chemicals and etc that could poison waters and kill people. Then there is the knocking out of power that is predicted to result in millions dying etc etc etc. So if God says (for whatever reason, whether man's own doing of also His judgments) that unless He stepped in all flesh would die, we are in NO position to question that!

Yes like I said, totes different this time, for really real unlike the last 2,000 years worth of it being imminent.

Yes it is for real, the timing we do not know. What is for real is that Jesus is returning to fix things before man is destroyed from the earth. Take it to the bank

 

[Desk trauma]

It was a thorough reply actually.

That didn’t answer the question.

 

[truthpls]

That didn’t answer the question.

Yes plenty of ways all life could end.

 

[Desk trauma]

Yes plenty of ways all life could end.

Again, what means do we have at our disposal to end all life that your deity is allegedly preventing from being used?

 

[MarkSB]

“If there’s something terrible that happens on Earth, either made by humans or natural, we want to have, like, life insurance for life as a whole,” Musk said in 2020. He wants to turn the planet into a self-sustaining colony, and he reportedly told SpaceX staffers last year he envisions one million people living on Mars by the 2040s.

Elon Musk Says He Wants To Send Humans To Mars As Soon As 2029

Musk—who has a history of setting unrealized goals for his companies—says he wants to send humans to Mars by 2029, though he says 2031 may be more likely.

www.forbes.com

The bible tells us Jesus is returning to earth to rule. There is no escape. Wasting trillions trying to avoid the fate of man on earth is in my opinion a waste and not of God at all.

Thoughts?

So, I'm also going to offer up an apology for reciprocating with an emotive response.

Going back to the OP, here is how I see it:

I echo your concern for the poor, and for those who do not have enough to eat. I think there is a case to be made that money spent on space exploration would be better spent on the homeless or on world hunger. (I'm not saying that we shouldn't spend money on space exploration, I'm just saying that you raise a valid concern). What I do find difficult to understand is the use of scripture to say that any space exploration is evil, as it is "fleeing from God". I think you're using scripture to try to create a blanket rule which just isn't there.

I also think you're oversimplifying the problems of poverty and starvation. I certainly think that those things need more funding and attention than what they get, but I don't think they are problems that you can easily buy your way out of. Those issues are much more complex than that.

Also - I tend to look at what I can do to make a difference. My opinions of what Elon Musk should do with his money is not going to have any impact on what he actually does with it, or on those who are suffering from hunger or poverty.

 

[truthpls]

Again, what means do we have at our disposal to end all life that your deity is allegedly preventing from being used?

"More than 5 billion people would die of hunger following a full-scale nuclear war between the U.S. and Russia, according to a global study led by Rutgers climate scientists that estimates post-conflict crop production."

Nuclear War Would Cause a Global Famine and Kill Billions, Rutgers-Led Study Finds

www.rutgers.edu

"Biological[25] weapons, whether used in war or terrorism, could result in human extinction"
"Cyberattacks have the potential to destroy everything from personal data to electric grids. Christine Peterson, co-founder and past president of the Foresight Institute, believes a cyberattack on electric grids has the potential to be a catastrophic risk"
"U.S. officials assess that an engineered pathogen capable of "wiping out all of humanity"
"Experts have concluded that "Developments in science and technology could significantly ease the development and use of high consequence biological weapons", and these "highly virulent and highly transmissible [bio-engineered pathogens] represent new potential pandemic threats"

Global catastrophe scenarios - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"...the current world population is 8 billion - detonating about 400 atomic bombs would wipe out humanity..."

Chinese academic: Humanity could destroy itself with nuclear weapons

Commentator Zhang Tiankan explores the themes of the movie Oppenheimer, and examines how nuclear weapons may not destroy the earth, but definitely might wipe out humanity and all life.

www.thinkchina.sg

Apparently there is great danger according to some experts.

I also cited a prophesy from the bible that says men will suddenly start killing each other. That would be a danger to the human race as well. Then as I also mentioned there are weapons that are secret. Who knows what these could do to humanity?

Finally we have God's word for it. He says that unless He steps in no one would be left alive. That'll do er

 

[truthpls]

So, I'm also going to offer up an apology for reciprocating with an emotive response.

Thank you

Going back to the OP, here is how I see it:

I echo your concern for the poor, and for those who do not have enough to eat. I think there is a case to be made that money spent on space exploration would be better spent on the homeless or on world hunger. (I'm not saying that we shouldn't spend money on space exploration, I'm just saying that you raise a valid concern).

OK

What I do find difficult to understand is the use of scripture to say that any space exploration is evil, as it is "fleeing from God". I think you're using scripture to try to create a blanket rule which just isn't there.

I think we could add other verses. Love one another, for example. If mankind loved one another why would they spend fortunes on things that still leave people suffer and starve? Then there are verses about rich people hoarding into barns for themselves etc. The rich man that did not help the poor Lazurus. Then we see verses telling man to subdue the earth, not the heavens. Also Ps 115:16 The heavens are the Lord’s heavens, but the earth he has given to the children of man.
We also know it is not a good thing to destroy the earth such as pollution does. The many rockets burn lots of fuel and also leave debris all over the space over earth. The verse was given earlier in the thread about how that in wicked men make a nest in the heavens, from there they will be brought down!

I also think you're oversimplifying the problems of poverty and starvation. I certainly think that those things need more funding and attention than what they get, but I don't think they are problems that you can easily buy your way out of. Those issues are much more complex than that.

A few posts ago I showed that the yearly space budget in the USA could end all hunger and all homelessness and still leave many billions to do other things. The numbers are simple.

Also - I tend to look at what I can do to make a difference. My opinions of what Elon Musk should do with his money is not going to have any impact on what he actually does with it, or on those who are suffering from hunger or poverty.

The quest to start evacuating earth is not restricted to one man. Nor would we expect the unbelieving people to not do what they do. What we can do is illustrate what is right and what is wrong.

 

[Desk trauma]

"More than 5 billion people would die of hunger following a full-scale nuclear war between the U.S. and Russia, according to a global study led by Rutgers climate scientists that estimates post-conflict crop production."

Nuclear War Would Cause a Global Famine and Kill Billions, Rutgers-Led Study Finds

www.rutgers.edu

"Biological[25] weapons, whether used in war or terrorism, could result in human extinction"
"Cyberattacks have the potential to destroy everything from personal data to electric grids. Christine Peterson, co-founder and past president of the Foresight Institute, believes a cyberattack on electric grids has the potential to be a catastrophic risk"
"U.S. officials assess that an engineered pathogen capable of "wiping out all of humanity"
"Experts have concluded that "Developments in science and technology could significantly ease the development and use of high consequence biological weapons", and these "highly virulent and highly transmissible [bio-engineered pathogens] represent new potential pandemic threats"

Global catastrophe scenarios - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"...the current world population is 8 billion - detonating about 400 atomic bombs would wipe out humanity..."

Chinese academic: Humanity could destroy itself with nuclear weapons

Commentator Zhang Tiankan explores the themes of the movie Oppenheimer, and examines how nuclear weapons may not destroy the earth, but definitely might wipe out humanity and all life.

www.thinkchina.sg

Apparently there is great danger according to some experts.

From non answer to goal post movement.

Human extinction isn’t the end of all life.

 

[truthpls]

From non answer to goal post movement.

Human extinction isn’t the end of all life.

It would be according to God. Extinct actually means none left you know. He says He will shorten the days so that will not happen. What is your problem?

 

[Desk trauma]

It would be according to God. Extinct actually means none left you know.

Human extinction would mean no more humans not no more life on earth. You claimed humans are being stoped from eradicating all life.

 

[truthpls]

Human extinction would mean no more humans not no more life on earth. You claimed humans are being stoped from eradicating all life.

? The verse has to do with God stopping man before all flesh is destroyed.

Here are a few versions of the verse


Matthew 24:22
In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive. But it will be shortened for the sake of God's chosen ones


If God doesn't make the time shorter, no one will be left alive. But because of God's chosen ones, he will make the time shorter

Unless those days were limited, no one would survive. But those days will be limited because of the elect.

Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short

Sp primarily it is talking about people. I allow that things could be so bad that perhaps earth would become unsuited for life. Although I provided several scenarios where man could destroy the people in the world more or less, we do not need to explain it with just known weapons. There is a lot being developed as well as as lot we do not know about. Things that could affect weather, water, plants, and life on earth.

You do not know it could not happen. I do not know how exactly it would happen if God allowed it. It is obvious man is a danger to ourselves and other creatures on the planet. I posted the verse where God Himself (Jesus) point blank says that unless He steps in it will happen. Not sure what leg you think you have to stand on to argue against it?

 

[Desk trauma]

The verse has to do with God stopping man before all flesh is destroyed.

This line of questioning has nothing to do with any of your scripture only what you posted. This is what you said:

God made us that way as well as made the universe. Right now, man is fallen, and sinful and dangerous and wicked. God limits mankind. Why? For example if God did not man would kill, yes kill all life on earth!

 

[truthpls]

This line of questioning has nothing to do with any of your scripture only what you posted. This is what you said:

Right, and God told us this because He said all flesh would be killed unless He intervened. Many bible scholars have interpreted that to mean just people. I interpret it to mean all life on earth. I have listed many ways the extinction of mankind could happen already. Since man is the primary purpose of the planet and sun moon and stars and animals on earth and other life as well, if man ended, why would the earth continue on? What, a few cockroaches and germs? We are told everything that is alive in the sea will die. The waters fresh and seas will be poisoned, killing all life in them. So that leaves land animals and life left. I recall another prophesy that says the beasts will be attacking mankind.

And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Revelation 6:8

A prophesy from God also speaks of animals turning against man as part of punishments for disobeying. There is no greater time of disobedience than the end time, so that applies as well

Lev 26:
22 I will send wild animals to attack you, and they will take your children away from you and destroy your cattle. They will make you so few in number the roads will be empty.

23 "'If you don't learn your lesson after all these things, and if you still turn against me,

24 I will also turn against you. I will punish you seven more times for your sins.

25 You broke my agreement, and I will punish you. I will bring armies against you, and if you go into your cities for safety, I will cause diseases to spread among you so that your enemy will defeat you.

Imagine if rats and birds and insects and beasts suddenly lost all their usual instincts and started trying to kill mankind!

Then, as mentioned, suddenly men will start killing each other as well! I gave the verses for that in a previous post. Then there are natural disasters like asteroids falling from space and hitting earth! Unless God stepped in, that would kill possibly most of the life on earth. Then there is the final evil world government that will be slaying large parts of the population! Then there is the mark of the beast in the foreheads or hands that is mandated by the government that somehow goes wrong and kills many many who took it! Then there will be earthquakes so great it is unimaginable! Every skyscraper and every mountain on earth will be shaken and brought down low. Every island on the planet (like Australia) will be jerked out from where it was and move! Every tree will be burned! All water will be undrinkable! The sun will go out! It will be dark all the time.

The only question is how much of this will be caused (allowed to be caused) by man! My guess is that enough of this will be caused by man to kill everyone, and therefore also probably the rest of life on earth. I think a large part of the final judgments of God will be His allowing man (directed by Satan) to destroy the earth. So much so, that He will have to come down and stop it before it is total.

That is the final face of sin. The path sin led man to. The only question is how much of all this will be caused by actions of mankind. That we could debate. But it is the action of man also that brings the wrath of God! So yes man would kill, yes KILL all life on earth for sure if not for God stepping in!! How would man kill it all? I suggest both by his evil weapons and science and murders etc as well as man's action of fighting God and giving in to Satan. That has to result in death. As I said, fallen man is dangerous and except for God stepping in, his actions will result in the end of all life on earth.

Your attempt to try and cast doubt on the sin nature of man and how man's actions will result in extinction of all life on earth unless I name some big weapon that could do this is refuted. As I also said, there are weapons we have not seen yet that man will use. Weapons or science that will affect the climate, the water, the health of man, the animals and etc etc.