Flat or round earth -The final experiment.

[Apple Sky]

That’s false, it doesn’t say that in Genesis, and Scripture makes it clear that Satan has no power, and additionally we see no evidence of the devil engaging in any act that could be regarded as creative.

God vs Satan

Satan has always counterfeited God's creation even Humans. Here are just a few examples of what God has made & Satan has counterfeited. God - An unmovable earth Satan- A movable earth. God - All plants & trees. Satan - Plastic Artificial types. God - Silk, Cotton Satan - Satin, Nylon...

www.christianforums.com

 

[The Liturgist]

Where ?

The insurmountable problems for Flat Earth start at Genesis 1:3-8 and Genesis 1:14-19

There could be no separate night and day with a flat Earth, since the Sun could only set by passing completely below the edge of the world, making it night for all observers, which we know is not the case. Likewise with the Moon and other celestial objects.

Now, I answered your question, but you continue to ignore the impossibility of reconciling your map with travel times on all East-West journeys, even in the Northern Hemisphere, due to the progressive distortion of the continents along the East-West axis, which increases with latitude at such a fast rate as to set in before one even crosses the equator, and these problems apply in equal measure to surface and aerial journeys, so there is no possible way to avoid the problem with impossible supersonic tailwinds and so forth. The time it takes to drive from East to West would be distorted, and furthermore heading due East or due West according to the Sun could not equate, pun intended, to a directional heading of East or West on a compass. One would have to continually compensate for the curvature of the Earth. And the extent of this compensation, this lateral warping, would intensify the closer one got to the North Pole, whereas the distance between any two points along latitude lines or parallel to latitude lines would increase the further south one travelled, and these distortions would be substantial enough to be noticed by all travellers. And as one headed West, the Sun would not rise or set later in the day, because the only way the Sun can actually completely set, leading to total darkness, is to dip below the disk.

This assumes the sun and moon are disks, which you and others have repeatedly insisted. But it would apply even if they were spherical, or indeed, of any arbitrary shape, for example, cones pointing towards the world.

Also, your argument of there being a magnetic tower in the center of the world fails to explain magnetic North because a tower of magnetic ore that strong would warp itself apart. The only model which can account for the Earth’s magnetic field is the model of the geomagnetosphere generated by the dynamo action of the molten core of the Earth relative to the surface.

 

[The Liturgist]

God vs Satan

Satan has always counterfeited God's creation even Humans. Here are just a few examples of what God has made & Satan has counterfeited. God - An unmovable earth Satan- A movable earth. God - All plants & trees. Satan - Plastic Artificial types. God - Silk, Cotton Satan - Satin, Nylon...

www.christianforums.com

Every example you give is unscriptural, in that scripture does not say any of the things you claim, but actually contradicts them. Specifically your argument is contradicted by John 1:1-18, which states that it was by our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ that all things were made.*

It also attributes evil to things which are clearly not evil and in the case of Fool’s Gold, or Iron Pyrite, is a naturally occurring mineral that while not gold, is quite beautiful, forming elegant shapes. Testing gold in the fire, while it would expose iron pyrite, would be unnecessary in that case because fool’s gold is obviously not gold, lacking the malleability of genuine gold at normal temperatures. But it would be a way of separating gold alloys from pure gold, and of purifying gold and removing other minerals found within it, and of separating a layer of gold from a coin made of some other metal.

And the elements composing “fool’s gold” are also created by God and are natural and beautiful. For example, iron, which we depend on for our very life, since it is a vital ingredient in our red blood cells which carry oxygen to the different parts of our body.

Other objects you list also impute evil to things which are neutral or good. For example, artificial trees are not inherently evil, but represent a beautiful form of art, which allow us to study the shape of God’s trees, as natural objects, and which are used to decorate and beautify model railroads, and architectural models, and other things. Indeed there is an entire art of producing miniature objects - one of my favorite miniature projects is the miniature of the uS White House (I used to have a book about it, which was a fantastic guide both to the beautiful interior of the White House and the art of the miniaturist - it had functioning miniature televisions for example. It was the ultimate doll house. And when it was vandalized while being exhibited in the Netherlands, the Dutch government was so upset, they directed the Corps of Miniaturists of the Dutch Royal Navy, who built miniature ships as a living for use in naval planning and naval architectural studies to assist in its restoration.

The idea of the devil creating evil counterparts to the good creation of God is foreign to Christianity, but rather originates in dualist religions such as Zoroastrianism (which is almost like a mix of Judaism and Hinduism, in that it has the hierarchy of angels of Judaism but in other concepts it is closer to Hinduism, or rather, is like anti-Hinduism). It is also a component of the Zoroastrian-derived mystery cult of Mithraism practiced by men in ancient Greece and Rome. And it is a component of the Manichean religion, which is a heretical cult that combined elements of Christianity, Zoroastrianism, and emanationist-Docetic sects such as the Valentinians. But it is closest to Zoroastrianism insofar as it divides the world between good objects created by God and bad objects created by the devil.

*For this reason, the attempt to make the Trinity gender-neutral by referring to the persons of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost as the Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer clashes with Scripture for the second time, after first being contradicted by Matthew 28:19.

 

[Strong in Him]

God vs Satan

Satan has always counterfeited God's creation even Humans. Here are just a few examples of what God has made & Satan has counterfeited. God - An unmovable earth Satan- A movable earth. God - All plants & trees. Satan - Plastic Artificial types. God - Silk, Cotton Satan - Satin, Nylon...

www.christianforums.com

You're quoting your own post as "evidence"?

Scripture does not say that Satan ever created humans, a globe earth etc. etc.
Think about it. If Satan has created a globe earth, then you are saying that there are 2 planet earths in the solar system - a flat one, created (according to you) by God and a globe one created by Satan. I hope you are not saying that is the case - because that comes dangerously close to saying that all of us who believe in a globe earth are living in Satan's world.

 

[Apple Sky]

This is what I found

​

“Water seeks its own level.” This is a universal principle which is applicable to water everywhere.​

 

[Strong in Him]

“Water seeks its own level.” This is a universal principle which is applicable to water everywhere.​

And ...... what?

 

[Apple Sky]

Every example you give is unscriptural, in that scripture does not say any of the things you claim, but actually contradicts them. Specifically your argument is contradicted by John 1:1-18, which states that it was by our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ that all things were made.*

I'm not denying this, my claim is the spirit of Satan which enters man/women is what makes them create or do these things, just as the spirit of God makes us to good.
Satan will use anyone for his owns means.

 

[Apple Sky]

You're quoting your own post as "evidence"?

Scripture does not say that Satan ever created humans, a globe earth etc. etc.
Think about it. If Satan has created a globe earth, then you are saying that there are 2 planet earths in the solar system - a flat one, created (according to you) by God and a globe one created by Satan. I hope you are not saying that is the case - because that comes dangerously close to saying that all of us who believe in a globe earth are living in Satan's world.

Read my last post.

 

[Strong in Him]

Read my last post.

My goodness; you seriously need to read your Bible!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. John 1:1-3

ALL things were made through Jesus. There is NOTHING that was not made by, and through, him.

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them. Genesis 1:27

We are made in the image of God. Everything we have, and are, is from him. He is the Creator; he gives us the ability to create too.
That means that God gives men and women the ability to create synthetic fibres, plastic, computers, smartphones etc. Yes, some use that gift for evil purposes, corrupt it or claim that the gift was from Satan. It wasn't. And it's our job to tell people that their GOD-given talents were literally from God.

“Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Job 1:12

Satan can do nothing unless God gives him permission. God is way more powerful than Satan.
A Christian who belongs to God, cannot be snatched from his hand nor separated from his love, does NOT have Satan living in them.

 

[Apple Sky]

Fool’s Gold, or Iron Pyrite, is a naturally occurring mineral that while not gold, is quite beautiful, forming elegant shapes.

My mistake, soz

 

[Apple Sky]

My goodness; you seriously need to read your Bible!

ALL things were made through Jesus. There is NOTHING that was not made by, and through, him.

We are made in the image of God. Everything we have, and are, is from him. He is the Creator; he gives us the ability to create too.
That means that God gives men and women the ability to create synthetic fibres, plastic, computers, smartphones etc. Yes, some use that gift for evil purposes, corrupt it or claim that the gift was from Satan. It wasn't. And it's our job to tell people that their GOD-given talents were literally from God.

Satan can do nothing unless God gives him permission. God is way more powerful than Satan.
A Christian who belongs to God, cannot be snatched from his hand nor separated from his love, does NOT have Satan living in them.

I'm not denying all this.
But there is such a thing as possession, right.

 

[Strong in Him]

I'm not denying all this.
But there is such a thing as possession, right.

I don't believe there is for Christians who live IN Christ; joined to the vine and walking in the light.
Satan can't just wander around and possess any person he wants to possess. ALL were made by God.

And if you're not denying what I wrote, then your thread about Satan creating man-made fabrics etc, is nonsense.

 

[Apple Sky]

I don't believe there is for Christians who live IN Christ; joined to the vine and walking in the light.
Satan can't just wander around and possess any person he wants to possess. ALL were made by God.

And if you're not denying what I wrote, then your thread about Satan creating man-made fabrics etc, is nonsense.

Maybe not for Christians but what about none Christians ? Where do you think the Satanists/Lucifarians come from, or evil ?

I'm not denying what you said, it's all true.

 

[Strong in Him]

Maybe not for Christians but what about none Christians ? Where do you think the Satanists/Lucifarians come from, or evil ?

I'm not denying what you said, it's all true.

Satanists are people who have dedicated their lives to Satan.
It will probably begin with horoscopes; a desire to know the future. Some people may be told that if they want to, they can see a psychic, get in touch with their loved ones through a medium etc. Even then, the majority of people will take it no further.
But a few may get drawn deeply into black magic - either because they see it working, they are coerced, they have family who are into it - or maybe they are vulnerable, through mental illness, bereavement etc. etc.
Though Satan may use those things to get their attention, he cannot then possess a person; it requires some permission/cooperation on their part.

And yes, Satan does imitate things.
God gives the gift of prophecy; Satan replicates that as psychic powers. God gives assurance that there is life after death; Satan says that the only way to know this is to use a medium. God gives peace, the peace which passes all understanding. Satan promises peace, and tries to replicate it, but can't. It's the same with love, joy, hope and assurance. God IS love and gives his love. Jesus left his, divine, peace, with us and spoke to his disciples so that their joy would be complete. Jesus is the Good Shepherd who came to give abundant life; Satan is a liar and murderer from the beginning and the thief who came to steal and destroy.

None of this has anything to do with a flat earth.
Nowhere does it say that Satan created a globe earth. Nor that he guides/possesses/lies to people like NASA and others to persuade people that the earth is a globe.
Nor that "man-made" fabrics, etc. are in fact from Satan or replicated by him.

 

[Apple Sky]

None of this has anything to do with a flat earth.

This is where your wrong.

Nor that he guides/possesses/lies to people like NASA and others to persuade people that the earth is a globe.

He does because he can & he has done this before, first with Eratosthenes & then with Copernicus which he succeeded with.

What people do not realize is that Copernicus only theorized his finding.

 

[The Liturgist]

theorized

You apparently don’t understand the meaning of this word. A hypothesis is an idea, which if it can be tested through experiments, becomes a theory, and accepted theories are those which, like General Relativity, have been proven correct.

Flat Earth is also a theory, a conspiracy theory, which has been proven false more categorically and comprehensively than any other theory in existence.

What the devil does is slander people, this is why the name Satan means the Accuser, because he makes false accusations. Falsely accusing everyone in the aerospace industry, and at NASA, ESA, Roscosmos and other space agencies, and in the Antarctic survey missions, of lying, in order to defend a theory so demonstrably false that the rising of the Sun in the East and its setting in the West, and at different times depending on longitude, and by comparing expected curvature of routes and travel times at each latitude line on the map used by adherents of the theory, is enough to completely disprove it, is slander and libel.

It is incompatible with Christianity for anyone who has intellectual capabilities to promote the idea of a Flat Earth in any manner that accuses NASA et al of lying.

The worst part of all of this is that there are ways I can think of involving complex geometry whereby one could argue for a flat Earth, that, while not parsimonious, would not require the denial of all science and the accusation of lies on so many people. If Flat Earth adherents were more creative, they could find in science cosmological ideas for a flat Earth and even a stationary Earth that would not require accusing many completely innocent and brave men and women of being involved in a Satanic conspiracy.

I have shown how the current Flat Earth theory is false, I have provided information on how you can verify this, and I am even willing to provide hypotheses for Flat Earth models that would not require accusing anyone of dishonesty.

Indeed, there is even a mainstream cosmological hypothesis, the Holographic Universe principle, in which the universe is two dimensional, with the third dimension emerging like a hologram and being essentially virtual, and is imprinted on the interior of a black hole, which is presently being widely studied by science.

 

[The Liturgist]

None of this has anything to do with a flat earth.

It does insofar as Flat Earth is demonstrably false and is an example of what in Orthodoxy we call prelest, or spiritual delusion, and Flat Earth can be shown to be evil because it slanders personally millions of people in the fields of aerospace, Antarctic research, civil engineering / survey, maritime shipping, cartography, and electronics engineering, accusing all astronauts and most people involved in any way with a job that requires knowledge of Terrestrial geometry or of aerospace considerations, by falsely accusing them of lying and participating in a Satanic conspiracy.

Thus I regard it as spiritually dangerous.

And as I noted in my previous post, it is needlessly so, because with a bit of imagination, Flat Earthers could work out theories which reconcile the experiences of astronauts, high altitude test pilots, Antarctic researchers et cetera with the idea of a geometrically flat and stationary Earth without accusing anyone of lying. These might be wrong, although the idea of a Holographic Universe is being actively studied.

 

[Strong in Him]

This is where your wrong.

Nope; flat earth has nothing to do with salvation, and can't affect it.

He does because he can & he has done this before, first with Eratosthenes & then with Copernicus which he succeeded with.

He doesn't - because he doesn't give a toss what people say about the shape of the earth.
As long as they stay away from God.
You could have a Christian who believes the earth is flat; they are born again, trust in Jesus, are filled with his Spirit, are a child of God, read his word regularly and serve him daily.
You could have a Christian who believes the earth is a globe; they are born again, trust in Jesus, are filled with his Spirit etc. etc.
Satan hates both of these people - because of their belief in Jesus.
Satan wants to keep people away from the cross, because on the cross, Jesus defeated the power of the devil. He made reconciliation with God possible - which means that people don't have to die in their sins and apart from God. Jesus overcame death when he rose again.

The shape of the earth has nothing to do with any of that.

What people do not realize is that Copernicus only theorized his finding.

What you don't realise is that you claim that gravity, the shape of the earth etc. are theories - yet you constantly post in the conspiracy theories forum. You claim you don't want to be addicted to these theories. Yet you post new theories yourself - what was the latest; King Charles being the Antichrist, or Obama being cloned? You cling onto, and promote, these while things like gravity, which can be demonstrated over and over again, you mock for being only a theory.

 

[Strong in Him]

It does insofar as Flat Earth is demonstrably false and is an example of what in Orthodoxy we call prelest, or spiritual delusion, and Flat Earth can be shown to be evil because it slanders personally millions of people in the fields of aerospace,

Yes, true.
I should have said that the shape of the earth is not necessary for salvation. The Bible does not say that we can only be saved if we believe the earth is flat, or cannot be saved if we believe it to be a globe, (which it is.)

 

[trophy33]

Indeed, in the Orthodox Church we use the Septuagint, or in the case of the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Peshitta, with the extra five books of the New Testament from the Athanasian canon added from the translation of St. Thomas of Harqel (whereas the Assyrian Church of the East, while accepting those books as canon, does not use them in the lectionary, and thus continues to use the 22 book Peshitta), or in the case of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, the Ge’ez bible. And there are other ancient versions still in use.

Two of the most interesting in terms of the New Testament are the Vetus Latina, which remains in use in the traditional Latin Mass and other Western liturgies - it is the source of the phrase “Gloria in Excelsis Deo” which the Vulgate translates as the much less pretty “Gloria in Altissimus Deo”, and the Vetus Syra (which consists only of the four canonical Gospels, but was translated as quickly as possible to replace the Diatessaron, a Gospel harmony compiled by Tatian, which was initially the only Syriac translation of the Gospels but which was suspected of being heretical, because Tatian did become the founder of a Gnostic sect related to those of Bardesanes and Severian, and also Gospel harmonies tend to be horrible, because they replace the lively individual Gospels with a mundane, mushed together text. It has been possible to reconstruct the Diatessaron from fragments and information about its contents, and I found it really lame, almost as bad as the Jefferson Bible. At any rate, the Vetus Latina and Vetus Syra constitute the only known examples of the Western Text Type, which is slightly different from the Alexandrian text type one finds in the Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Alexandrinus and Codex Vaticanus, and the Byzantine text type one finds pretty much everywhere else. These differences, it should be stressed, are minor, contrary to what some people say.

I have used the Rahlf's Septuagint (in Greek), sometimes the Brenton translation. Then I bought the NETS translation, discovered that everything has various versions and several possible variants of translations (for example in Daniel), then I basically gave up. Reading only casually.