Flat or round earth -The final experiment.

[Apple Sky]

Now explain it please.

I can't, I've explained the best I could.

 

[Apple Sky]

It's not an insult; it's a possible explanation for why you keep making the same statements/posting the same things that supposedly "prove" flat earth, being told that they don't and why they don't, ignoring the answer or changing the subject, and a few pages later posting the same things again and asking questions that have already been answered.

The words, "yes, I can see that I was wrong", would indicate humility.
The words, "sorry, I'm not very scientific, could you explain that again?" would indicate a desire to learn.
The words, "oh, your Bible uses that word, mine uses this. I wonder what the authors were saying, especially in the light of these verses ....?" would indicate a desire to learn from, and about, the Bible.
You don't use any of those. Your arguments are, "yes, it is/no it isn't," "that's not what I SEE - (therefore it doesn't happen.)" "God says ......." (when in fact he says nothing of the kind. And if all else fails, "lies, fake."

This is mad, but I have wondered in the past if maybe you are studying for a degree in Psychology or something. And in a few months time you will produce a brilliant thesis on the psychology of manipulation, or how you managed to get complete strangers to argue with you when you were talking nonsense.
It's either that, OR you are winding us up OR you know perfectly well that we may be telling the truth, but you're not going to admit it. Partly because you don't want your beliefs to be shattered, and maybe because your health isn't great, this is the only interaction you get with Christians, or people in general - which would be sad.

I've tried my best.

 

[Strong in Him]

I've tried my best.

You've tried your best to understand?
You've tried your best to learn about the Bible? You don't even need to learn different theological viewpoints; you just need to know that the Bible is about God, his love, his salvation and his plan and is not a science textbook.
You've tried your best to persuade us of your ideas?
You've tried your best to test what we are saying by reading scientific papers/explanations - instead of dashing off to YouTube to try to find something to refute us?
You've tried your best to give up conspiracy theories and accept a globe earth?

I doubt, sadly, that it is the latter, but in case it is, why don't you do what, several months ago, you told God you would do and ask for his help?

 

[Phil G]

I can't, I've explained the best I could.

But you haven’t explained it at all. The fact is that your own observation (the same one I have also observed) contradicts the way the sizes of the sun and moon should appear to change if the earth is flat and they rotate above us. That is the problem you have to face if you’re to learn from this.

It should tell you that the reality does not match flat earth theory. Which is what we have all being telling you throughout these threads.

So you have a choice now. Either ignore that reality does not agree with flat earth theory and carry on as if this contradiction isn’t there, or question flat earth completely. Wipe the slate clean and start again, this time with God’s help, using logic and reason.

 

[trophy33]

It should tell you that the reality does not match flat earth theory.

Well, the problem is that, she believes every word in Bible is from God and infallible, including the Iron Age cosmology references.

Without her leaving the verbal plenary inspiration view of the Bible, you are basically asking her to leave her faith, which is something she will not do...emotions are stronger than rationality.

She hears something like "Confirm that God is wrong!", which is both logically and emotionally impossible to do.

 

[prodromos]

Yes I did.

Then the only thing you learned was how to speak Seth Efriken.

 

[prodromos]

It is , I see this all the time with the moon.

What you think you see is actually an optical illusion. Our brains make assumptions based on how things are relative to others and are very easily tricked.
For example, in the picture below, both the center circles are identical in size, but our brains are tricked into thinking the one surrounded by small circles is bigger than the one surrounded by large circles.

The same thing happens when the sun or moon get close to the horizon. When they are up high, our brains have no other reference so tend to make them appear smaller, but close to the horizon when trees and buildings can be seen tricks our brains into thinking it is larger. The fact is they remain exactly the same size all the way across the sky as has been shown when people take multiple exposure photographs which we have posted before in these threads.

 

[Apple Sky]

What you think you see is actually an optical illusion. Our brains make assumptions based on how things are relative to others and are very easily tricked.
For example, in the picture below, both the center circles are identical in size, but our brains are tricked into thinking the one surrounded by small circles is bigger than the one surrounded by large circles.
View attachment 367731
The same thing happens when the sun or moon get close to the horizon. When they are up high, our brains have no other reference so tend to make them appear smaller, but close to the horizon when trees and buildings can be seen tricks our brains into thinking it is larger. The fact is they remain exactly the same size all the way across the sky as has been shown when people take multiple exposure photographs which we have posted before in these threads.
View attachment 367732

Thank you for explaining this, but can you tell me, when did God create the earth to rotate ? Or was it already rotating in order to receive night & day ? And why do the scriptures say that the earth is unmovable ?

"Unmovable" means incapable of being moved or not able to be changed or influenced. It describes something that is fixed, stationary, or steadfast.

 

[David Lamb]

Come on! We are talking about this post of yours:

--- --- --- --- --- ---
"But God hasn't said that. He said

“The likeness of the firmament above the heads of the living creatures was like the color of an awesome crystal, stretched out over their heads.” (Eze 1:22 NKJV)
--- --- --- --- --- ---

Eze 1:22 is not God saying it. It is a description of Ezekiel. The whole chapter Ez 1 is written from the perspective of Ezekiel - "I saw, I heard" etc. God begins to speak in Ezekiel chapter 2.

But as I said, the Context of Ezekiel 1;21 is set by verses 1-3, which describe the contents as both "visions of God" (verse 1) and "the word of the LORD" (verse 3.)

“1 ¶ Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, on the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the River Chebar, that the heavens were opened and I saw visions of God. 2 On the fifth day of the month, which was in the fifth year of King Jehoiachin’s captivity, 3 the word of the LORD came expressly to Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the River Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was upon him there.” (Eze 1:1-3 NKJV)

 

[David Lamb]

Not when they are rising, I've watched the moon as it rises, the more it rises the smaller it gets, I watched the moon many times & this is what I see happening every time.

Exactly, and as it is closer to you when fully risen, perspective should make it look bigger, not smaller. But it doesn't. Why? That is the question you have been asked many times on this thread.

 

[David Lamb]

My diagram is aimed at the vanishing point when we see the sun vanish & why, not the size.

But as I have said to you many times, the sun doesn't get smaller and smaller until it reaches vanishing point when it sets. I am sure you have watched a sunset. You have even said on this thread that the sun looks bigger at sunrise and sunset than at other times. As the sun sets, we see less and less of it. When it is "half set" it we see a semicircle, then less and less, until (as it appears to us) the last sliver of the sun disappears below the horizon. The sun doesn't set by appearing to get smaller and smaller until it is too small to see, like a butterfly flying away from you.

 

[trophy33]

But as I said, the Context of Ezekiel 1;21 is set by verses 1-3, which describe the contents as both "visions of God" (verse 1) and "the word of the LORD" (verse 3.)

“1 ¶ Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, on the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the River Chebar, that the heavens were opened and I saw visions of God. 2 On the fifth day of the month, which was in the fifth year of King Jehoiachin’s captivity, 3 the word of the LORD came expressly to Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the River Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was upon him there.” (Eze 1:1-3 NKJV)

It does not work this way. Introduction to a book does not define everything that follows in the text. The "word of the Lord" begins in chapter number 2. Chapter number 1 is Ezekiel describing what he saw before that.

 

[David Lamb]

It does not work this way. Introduction to a book does not define everything that follows in the text. The "word of the Lord" begins in chapter number 2. Chapter number 1 is Ezekiel describing what he saw before that.

I believe in this context it does. Nothing in Ezekiel 1 suggests that between the introductory verses and verse 21 there is some shift away from the content being "visions of God" and "the word of the LORD" to "words made up by Ezekiel."

 

[trophy33]

I believe in this context it does. Nothing in Ezekiel 1 suggests that between the introductory verses and verse 21 there is some shift away from the content being "visions of God" and "the word of the LORD" to "words made up by Ezekiel."

"I looked and saw..." Ez 1:4

"When I looked at the living creatures, I saw..." Ez 1:15

"I heard the sound..." Ez 1:24

"And when I saw it, I fell facedown and heard a voice speaking." Ez 1:28, the end of the first chapter. The chapter number 2 follows with God speaking.

Who is the one narrating through chapter 1? Who is the "I"?

 

[David Lamb]

"I looked and saw..." Ez 1:4

"When I looked at the living creatures, I saw..." Ez 1:15

"I heard the sound..." Ez 1:24

"And when I saw it, I fell facedown and heard a voice speaking." Ez 1:28, the end of the first chapter. The chapter number 2 follows with God speaking.

Who is the one narrating through chapter 1? Who is the "I"?

Obviously the "I" is Ezekiel, but what did he see when he looked? Visions of God, also described in v3 at "the word of the Lord."

 

[trophy33]

Obviously the "I" is Ezekiel, but what did he see when he looked? Visions of God, also described in v3 at "the word of the Lord."

The origin of the vision is not the topic. The topic is who said the words in Ez 1.

I do not know why, but you simply do not want to admit the obvious, like Apple Sky does not want to either. But in different areas. It seems everybody has a blind spot.

 

[David Lamb]

The origin of the vision is not the topic. The topic is who said the words in Ez 1.

I do not know why, but you simply do not want to admit the obvious, like Apple Sky does not. But in different areas. It seems everybody has a blind spot.

But even the words recorded as spoken by God in the bible were written down by human authors. As I have said, I, like many others here, believe that the human authors of the bible where inspired by God Himself, so that what they wrote was His truth. Believing that in no way makes me think that the moon landings were a hoax, and other conspiracy theories. Apple Sky and I share a believe in the trustworthiness of the bible, but that doesn't mean I agree with her (mis)interpretations of it.

 

[Phil G]

Thank you for explaining this, but can you tell me, when did God create the earth to rotate ? Or was it already rotating in order to receive night & day ? And why do the scriptures say that the earth is unmovable ?

"Unmovable" means incapable of being moved or not able to be changed or influenced. It describes something that is fixed, stationary, or steadfast.

The Scriptures you refer to are poetic in nature. For instance this verse is a favourite of flat earthers:

"You who laid the foundations of the earth, So that it should not be moved forever" Psalm 104:5 NKJV

But the Psalm also describes God as "clothed" with honour and majesty and clouds as His "chariot". I seem to remember going through something like this with you before.

Poetic descriptions illustrate truth through metaphors. The truths illustrated in these verses is that it is God who has established His creation. It is He who maintains His creation. Everything He has created is steadfast for He is steadfast. He has ultimate control of His creation. Verses like verse 5 are describing God, not His creation.

The verses are not meant to be taken literally. They are metaphors to describe who God IS. Scripture is all about God and how He is revealed through His creation, the pinnacle being human beings.

 

[Apple Sky]

The Scriptures you refer to are poetic in nature. For instance this verse is a favourite of flat earthers:

"You who laid the foundations of the earth, So that it should not be moved forever" Psalm 104:5 NKJV

But the Psalm also describes God as "clothed" with honour and majesty and clouds as His "chariot". I seem to remember going through something like this with you before.

Poetic descriptions illustrate truth through metaphors. The truths illustrated in these verses is that it is God who has established His creation. It is He who maintains His creation. Everything He has created is steadfast for He is steadfast. He has ultimate control of His creation. Verses like verse 5 are describing God, not His creation.

The verses are not meant to be taken literally. They are metaphors to describe who God IS. Scripture is all about God and how He is revealed through His creation, the pinnacle being human beings.

I guess I will have to learn to look at the Bible differently like what is poetic & what is not.

 

[trophy33]

But even the words recorded as spoken by God in the bible were written down by human authors.

Yes. But even this is not the topic here. The topic here is that you said "God said: "..." and quoted the words spoken by Ezekiel. Not written down by Ezekiel, but the words of Ezekiel.

As I have said, I, like many others here, believe that the human authors of the bible where inspired by God Himself, so that what they wrote was His truth.

Depends on the definition. If you believe that every word in the Bible is directly dictated by God or infallible or without human errors or anything like that, I can debunk it in one minute using just the text of your own Bible. But I know you are not interested.

Believing that in no way makes me think that the moon landings were a hoax, and other conspiracy theories. Apple Sky and I share a believe in the trustworthiness of the bible, but that doesn't mean I agree with her (mis)interpretations of it.

I did not say you believe the earth is flat. I said that it seems that everybody has a blind spot and does not see the obvious. In different areas. Because of our individual bias.