Flat Earth

[Job 33:6]

"solid dome"? Neither word appears in the bible at all.

"solid"
occurs 0 time in 0 verses in the KJV.

"dome"
occurs 0 time in 0 verses in the KJV.


I don't agree in the slightest that the image posted represents what any biblical author thought the Earth looked like. Water above the moon made me chuckle

The firmament is described like a sea of glass, like crystal, like sapphire, as pavement. It has windows or flood gates which hold back water. It's described like frozen water or ice as well.

All of the above being solid adjectives or words implying something solid.

And the word "dome" is also used in many Bible translations as well. LEB, NASB, CEB, CJB etc.

No one who studies scripture should ever rely on a single translation, even if it is KJV because all translations are different and have their strengths and weaknesses.

Also, scripture explicitly states that water above the firmament was what flooded the earth, and of course the lights, and stars were placed in the firmament. Therefore the water must have come from beyond the moon.

Floodgates of the firmament allowed water of the heavens to pass through the firmament (remember that the firmament separates the waters from the waters). And the moon and sun were placed in the firmament.

 

[ewq1938]

No one who studies scripture should ever rely on a single translation, even if it is KJV because all translations are different and have their strengths and weaknesses.

Well, the best way is to go further than that to rely on the manuscripts rather than any translations. That's why the Hebrew word and what it means is far superior than the French or Latin origins of the English word "firmament".

So, the bible uses figurative language that is never to be taken literally. That is clear error. The sky above us, the "firmament" us not solid or hard or firm and can be flown through and flown out of right into outer space and there is no water up there.

A circle does not equal a flat coin shape but is just the rough visual outline like you see in pictures of the Sun or Moon etc. A tent above the Earth does not mean a literal tent of fabric or animal skin.

 

[Job 33:6]

Well, the best way is to go further than that to rely on the manuscripts rather than any translations. That's why the Hebrew word and what it means is far superior than the French or Latin origins of the English word "firmament".

So, the bible uses figurative language that is never to be taken literally. That is clear error. The sky above us, the "firmament" us not solid or hard or firm and can be flown through and flown out of right into outer space and there is no water up there.

A circle does not equal a flat coin shape but is just the rough visual outline like you see in pictures of the Sun or Moon etc. A tent above the Earth does not mean a literal tent of fabric or animal skin.

The Old Testament explicitly states that the firmament separates the waters of the heavens from the waters below, so yes there must be a water above the firmament. Hence why it's described like frozen water, ice, like sapphire which is a blue mineral.

You can't say that there's no water up there if scripture explicitly states that the firmament separates the waters from the waters.

In scripture also explicitly states that God placed the stars in the firmament, which means that waters above the firmament must have been beyond the stars.

This is just what scripture says, and either you can accept it or you can't.

 

[Job 33:6]

The Old Testament explicitly states that the firmament separates the waters of the heavens from the waters below, so yes there must be a water above the firmament. Hence why it's described like frozen water, ice, like sapphire which is a blue mineral.

You can't say that there's no water up there if scripture explicitly states that the firmament separates the waters from the waters.

In scripture also explicitly states that God placed the stars in the firmament, which means that waters above the firmament must have been beyond the stars.

This is just what scripture says, and either you can accept it or you can't.

And in Noah's flood, scripture explicitly states that the windows of the firmament, also translated as flood gates, opened up and let the waters in. So yes, clearly they were describing water above the firmament, a firmament in which the stars were set in, in as thumb tacks are "in" a cork board.

And as Christians we have a choice. Either A. Genesis is one big metaphorical story that means something completely different than what it says, maybe the windows of the firmament are actually black holes transporting water from across the milky way, or option B, we can view it in a historical context of a pre scientific peoples (God didn't teach people scientifically literal details, but rather the truth of God's message is found elsewhere, such as in topics of monotheism or His love for us through Imago Dei or things of the like).

 

[ewq1938]

The Old Testament explicitly states that the firmament separates the waters of the heavens from the waters below, so yes there must be a water above the firmament. Hence why it's described like frozen water, ice, like sapphire which is a blue mineral.

You can't say that there's no water up there if scripture explicitly states that the firmament separates the waters from the waters.

In scripture also explicitly states that God placed the stars in the firmament, which means that waters above the firmament must have been beyond the stars.

This is just what scripture says, and either you can accept it or you can't.

I don't accept your personal exegesis of it. I accept what it says, but I don't use a hyper-literal method to do so.

The "firmament" is the atmosphere and yes there is water there but, no, it is not solid or made up of a hard bluish material like some claim.

Do you deny we have crafts etc in space? If your concept of the firmament is accurate, it would be impossible to get objects to the moon and further and possibly even satellites would not be possible.

 

[ewq1938]

And in Noah's flood, scripture explicitly states that the windows of the firmament, also translated as flood gates, opened up and let the waters in. So yes, clearly they were describing water above the firmament, a firmament in which the stars were set in, in as thumb tacks are "in" a cork board.

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

What we have are windows of the heaven and this would be the first heaven which is the atmosphere of the Earth where rain clouds are located. There aren't any literal windows. All the verse is saying is there was rain from the sky dumping massive amounts of water. This also is not saying there is large amounts of water in space.

The stars are not part of the Earth's atmosphere. They are extremely far away. They do appear to be close but it is an optical illusion since the light has traveled here but the star itself is not close to the Earth. I assume you disagree with all of that and think they are located within a close Earthly firmament?

 

[OnePath]

A tent above the Earth does not mean a literal tent of fabric or animal skin.

No, but the verse in question is a simile, which compares one thing to a thing of a different kind. So, it's a comparison. Would you mind explaining how when God made this comparison, He would have been describing a spinning ball hurdling through an endless vacuum of space? What in this comparison would have put that vision into the mind of the readers?

 

[Lost4words]

Jeff and Richard, with their space travel set up, have dismissed flat earth beliefs into true fantasy.

 

[Job 33:6]

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

What we have are windows of the heaven and this would be the first heaven which is the atmosphere of the Earth where rain clouds are located. There aren't any literal windows. All the verse is saying is there was rain from the sky dumping massive amounts of water. This also is not saying there is large amounts of water in space.

The stars are not part of the Earth's atmosphere. They are extremely far away. They do appear to be close but it is an optical illusion since the light has traveled here but the star itself is not close to the Earth. I assume you disagree with all of that and think they are located within a close Earthly firmament?

And God said, “Let there be a vaulted dome in the midst of the waters, and let it cause a separation between the waters.” So God made the vaulted dome, and he caused a separation between the waters which were under the vaulted dome and between the waters which were over the vaulted dome. And it was so.
Genesis 1:6‭-‬7 LEB

And God called the vaulted dome “heaven.” And there was evening, and there was morning, a second day.
Genesis 1:8 LEB


And where are the waters above heaven?

That's right, they're above the firmament/dome.

In the six hundredth year of the life of Noah, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month—on that day all the springs of the great deep were split open, and the windows of heaven [also translated as flood gates] were opened. And the rain came upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
Genesis 7:11‭-‬12 LEB


And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Genesis 1:7 KJV

There is water above the firmament/dome. It says it in plain language.

 

[Job 33:6]

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

What we have are windows of the heaven and this would be the first heaven which is the atmosphere of the Earth where rain clouds are located. There aren't any literal windows. All the verse is saying is there was rain from the sky dumping massive amounts of water. This also is not saying there is large amounts of water in space.

The stars are not part of the Earth's atmosphere. They are extremely far away. They do appear to be close but it is an optical illusion since the light has traveled here but the star itself is not close to the Earth. I assume you disagree with all of that and think they are located within a close Earthly firmament?

The waters of the heavens are above the firmament where the stars were placed "in".

And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Genesis 1:7 KJV

And God gathered the waters below the firmament. So the waters passing through the floodgates are not the waters below the firmament.

It's written plain and clear as day.

And it doesn't matter what I believe. What matters is the intent and meaning of the original author.

 

[OnePath]

Jeff and Richard, with their space travel set up, have dismissed flat earth beliefs into true fantasy.

In what way?

 

[Job 33:6]

The waters of the heavens are above the firmament where the stars were placed "in".

And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Genesis 1:7 KJV

And God gathered the waters below the firmament. So the waters passing through the floodgates are not the waters below the firmament.

It's written plain and clear as day.

And it doesn't matter what I believe. What matters is the intent and meaning of the original author.

So God made the vaulted dome, and he caused a separation between the waters which were under the vaulted dome and between the waters which were over the vaulted dome. And it was so. And God called the vaulted dome “heaven.” And there was evening, and there was morning, a second day. And God said, “Let the waters under heaven be gathered to one place, and let the dry ground appear.” And it was so.
Genesis 1:7‭-‬9 LEB

And God said, “Let there be lights in (inside, in like thumb tacks in a cork board) the vaulted dome of heaven to separate day from night, and let them be as signs and for appointed times, and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14 LEB

So the stars, sun and moon are in the firmament and flood waters are above the firmament waiting for the windows to open for the water to come down.

 

[ewq1938]

No, but the verse in question is a simile, which compares one thing to a thing of a different kind. So, it's a comparison. Would you mind explaining how when God made this comparison, He would have been describing a spinning ball hurdling through an endless vacuum of space?

I don't think that is accurate language. God used the only language that people could understand. He was not trying to give detailed information. The bible is not a technical instruction manual.

 

[ewq1938]

And where are the waters above the heavens?

That's right, they're above the firmament.

And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Genesis 1:7 KJV

There is water above the firmament. It says it in plain language.

Yes, in a higher level of the atmosphere than the lower part. This is not saying there is water in space because there is no water in space.

 

[OnePath]

I don't think that is accurate language. God used the only language that people could understand. He was not trying to give detailed information. The bible is not a technical instruction manual.

So, His comparison was purpously inaccurate?

 

[ewq1938]

So, His comparison was purpously inaccurate?

I was addressing the other member's description of the Earth.

 

[OnePath]

I was addressing the other member's description of the Earth.

You were addressing the simile in Isaiah 40:22 referenced by the other member, but responding to my comment, which I do appreciate, but the follow-up question remains. Are you saying His comparison was purpously inaccurate?

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes, in a higher level of the atmosphere than the lower part. This is not saying there is water in space because there is no water in space.

It describes water above the firmament.

So God made the vaulted dome, and he caused a separation between the waters which were under the vaulted dome and between the waters which were over the vaulted dome. And it was so.
Genesis 1:7 LEB

God places the stars in the firmament

And God said, “Let there be lights in the vaulted dome of heaven to separate day from night, and let them be as signs and for appointed times, and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14 LEB


Therefore waters of the heavens which later flooded the earth is above the stars.

You can't change scripture just because you don't like what it says. And it doesn't matter where you think there is or is not water, you didn't write Genesis, so your opinion on the matter is not significant to the question of what the original intent and meaning was of the original author.

 

[ewq1938]

It describes water above the firmament.

Which is not saying God has vast amounts of water in space because we have been to space and no water is there.

 

[Job 33:6]

Which is not saying God has vast amounts of water in space because we have been to space and no water is there.

Let me repeat:
So God made the vaulted dome, and he caused a separation between the waters which were under the vaulted dome and between the waters which were over the vaulted dome. And it was so.
Genesis 1:7 LEB

God places the stars in the firmament

And God said, “Let there be lights in the vaulted dome of heaven to separate day from night, and let them be as signs and for appointed times, and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14 LEB


Therefore waters of the heavens which later flooded the earth is above the lights/stars.

where you think water is or is not in the universe does not matter to the question of what the authors original intent is. You aren't the author and didn't write Genesis.

The goal is to identify the intent and meaning as portrayed by the original author of Genesis. The goal is not to identify your personal opinion.