Flat earth beliefs are totally in error.

Dirk1540 · Apr 9, 2019

I have a question, why are FE believers so confident in what Earth DOESN’T look like from space? Can’t you show us what it does look like then if you reject all the photos? You have to know an original before you can call something a counterfeit.

If it’s even semi dark in a room my phone camera is pretty much useless without the flash. So I’m not shocked that pictures of Earth in dark space would be artificially illuminated.

MartyF · Apr 9, 2019

_Dave_ said:
I honestly don't know what to say to that. It's just hard for me to imagine.

There are two things going on in this.

First, The desire to be one with “special” revelation. Everyone else has it wrong and they’ve got it right. Many people have beliefs like this because it makes them special.

Second, stubbornness. People will take this position and be hard-headed simply because they like to argue.

Third, most degrees are worthless and mean nothing. A master’s in education, philosophy, and theology are examples. One needs absolutely no contact with reality to obtain these degrees.

Fourth, they likely keep their opinions secret from others.

Finally, would anyone want a flat-earther to design a bridge you have to cross? Perform surgery on them? Decide their case in a court of law? Represent them? Lead the U.S. Armed forces? Take charge of our nuclear missiles? Decide on their mental health? Command a Navy Submarine? Command a cruise ship? Etc. . .

The flat-earther position is very, very sad and if they had any power in the world, the world would be devestated.

I am never impressed by degrees. And this is just another reason why.

JacksBratt · Apr 9, 2019

_Dave_ said:
Yeah, my wife personally knew astronaut Gene Cernan and has visited him at his house. She says that's exactly what Cernan described it looked like from when he was walking on the moon.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist)

Lets ask a question...

If Gene saw a Flat disk, as did Auguste Picard in 1939... and he came back and told anyone.. anyone at all...even your wife... his wife... his buddy he goes to the pub with.. that "psst.. the earth is flat..

What do you think would happen next?

JacksBratt · Apr 9, 2019

_Dave_ said:
I honestly don't know what to say to that. It's just hard for me to imagine.

That says a lot... right there. People assume that people who believe in the FE are stupid.... blows my mind.... that people are that naive.

Oldmantook · Apr 9, 2019

_Dave_ said:
I appreciate your reasoned answer. But let's explore that a bit.

I meant it when I said my wife knew astronaut Gene Cernan. She visited him at his house, and he told her stories about what it was like to walk on the moon, and about the incredible views of the spherical earth from the moon and from space.

Was Mr. Cernan delusional? Was he part of the moon landing conspiracy and was he lying to impress my wife? If it was indeed true that he did and saw all that he said he did, what would he think of someone visiting at the same time who declared without reservation to Mr. Cernan's face that the earth is flat, that there was no moon landing, and that space as Mr. Cernan saw and experienced it did not exist?

As an astronaught Mr. Cernan probably did have some scientific credentials, but more importantly he was there. He did it and saw it. We're not talking about some earth-based scientific experiment. The man actually walked on the moon.

Let's face it. Someone in this scenario has to be wrong.

Thanks for your reply. Indeed, someone has to be wrong as there is no middle ground on this particular subject. Regarding your wife's experience with Mr. Cernan, the possibilities are that he was either telling the truth, was delusional or was a liar. For me personally, I doubt believe anything that NASA puts out. There are just too many contradictions from NASA itself that robs them of any credibility in my opinion. For instance they have stated that the Van Allen radiation belt is a big hurdle to overcome in terms of future manned space missions. How can that be possible when that problem should have been dealt with when we purportedly put men on the moon decades ago?

The question then becomes, if NASA cannot be trusted, then who else besides the astronauts have gone up far enough above the earth to view its shape. If I remember correctly Auguste Piccard in the 1930's went up in his hot-air balloon at high altitude and to him it appeared that the earth was flat.

Oldmantook · Apr 9, 2019

A_Thinker said:
The Flat Earth movement has always been held by a very small contingent of the population (current estimates - 2 per-cent).

It has been foremost, a populist position .... with very few, if any, scientists giving it credence.

Flat earth was the majority position centuries ago - until Copernicus proposed his heliocentric model at the urging of the Catholic Church, in particular by the Jesuits. Study history for yourself and discover why.

_Dave_ · Apr 9, 2019

JacksBratt said:
Lets ask a question...

If Gene saw a Flat disk, as did Auguste Picard in 1939... and he came back and told anyone.. anyone at all...even your wife... his wife... his buddy he goes to the pub with.. that "psst.. the earth is flat..

What do you think would happen next?

Jack, that's a logical fallacy because neither Mr. Cernan, nor any other astronaut who has ever been in space and orbited the spherical earth has done anything but wonder at the beauty and majesty of being in space, and admire the beauty of our planet.

To my knowledge not one single astronaut has ever come back and said he or she saw a flat disk, or a pancake-shaped earth covered with a dome and sitting on pillars, or whatever.

To say that because none of them admitted to seeing a flat earth that means the earth is flat is just plain a logically fallacious conclusion.

So, basically, you are relying on the NASA conspiracy model. You are calling every single person who has ever worked in the space program a liar and a conspirator. You are saying there is not one single whistleblower among the thousands who have ever worked in the space industry.

Awhile back I watched a great movie called "Hidden Figures" about some women who were human calculators responsible for the enormously complicated calculations to get the first man into space and safely back to earth again so he could be picked up in a certain spot in the ocean. Orbital mathematics played a big part in those calculations.

This movie was based on real people and real events at the dawn of the space age. Did all of these people lie? I mean, really?

Like I keep saying, I'm fascinated by how far FE people are willing to go to deny reality?

Norman70 · Apr 9, 2019

I opened this thread and I have learnt not to be concerned any more with flat earthers, in the same way I have learnt to have nothing more to do with atheists. All I can do is pray for them. I thought this was a Christians only forum, and yet just because I said I did not believe in the literal truth of the Bible I was asked whether or not I believed in the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ!!!
I believe in the supernatural, I believe in a spiritual connection with God through Jesus, and although I am in this world I am not part of it, and most of this thread (not all of it) indicates to me why I must avoid engaging in the worldly banter posted here. God bless you all.

MartyF · Apr 9, 2019

Norman70 said:
I opened this thread and I have learnt not to be concerned any more with flat earthers, in the same way I have learnt to have nothing more to do with atheists.

So, you walk on the other side of the street whenever someone is not openly believing in God? You find Muslims to be better than Atheists?

Norman70 said:
All I can do is pray for them.

Ever read "Letters from a Skeptic" by Greg Boyd?

Norman70 said:
I thought this was a Christians only forum, and yet just because I said I did not believe in the literal truth of the Bible I was asked whether or not I believed in the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ!!!

And yet you still can't answer with a simple yes . . .

Norman70 said:
I believe in the supernatural, I believe in a spiritual connection with God through Jesus, and although I am in this world I am not part of it, and most of this thread (not all of it)
indicates to me why I must avoid engaging in the worldly banter posted here.

Spiritualism, Gnosticism, and the belief in the supernatural is not Christianity.

Norman70 said:
God bless you all.

I'm assuming you are saying this in the same manner as in Job's wife.

A_Thinker · Apr 9, 2019

Oldmantook said:
Flat earth was the majority position centuries ago - until Copernicus proposed his heliocentric model at the urging of the Catholic Church, in particular by the Jesuits. Study history for yourself and discover why.

More like ... a couple thousand years ago ...

Norman70 · Apr 9, 2019

@MartyF. To be a Christian does not require us to believe in the supernatural!? Ouch! And I thought this was a Christians only forum. I wonder what C. S. Lewis would have thought of that?
I will search CF first for threads on this and then perhaps start one. I apologise to you if I am suggesting you are not a Christian. It is just that I thought a belief in the supernatural was an essential part of any religion.

JacksBratt · Apr 9, 2019

_Dave_ said:
Jack, that's a logical fallacy because neither Mr. Cernan, nor any other astronaut who has ever been in space and orbited the spherical earth has done anything but wonder at the beauty and majesty of being in space, and admire the beauty of our planet.

Ya.. I can see their excitement here:

These guys remind me of me when I was told to say sorry for something that I didn't do... LOL..

JacksBratt · Apr 9, 2019

_Dave_ said:
To my knowledge not one single astronaut has ever come back and said he or she saw a flat disk, or a pancake-shaped earth covered with a dome and sitting on pillars, or whatever.

Yep... no surprise there...

_Dave_ said:
To say that because none of them admitted to seeing a flat earth that means the earth is flat is just plain a logically fallacious conclusion.

I'm not saying that.. I'm saying that if they did see a flat earth.... there's no way they are going to admit it...

Can you imagine.... Chris Hadfield coming back and then, on Jay Leno... saying "Actually, I can no longer lie.. the earth is really flat"

Ya, that would go over real well as they put him in a straight jacket.... LOL.

_Dave_ said:
So, basically, you are relying on the NASA conspiracy model. You are calling every single person who has ever worked in the space program a liar and a conspirator. You are saying there is not one single whistleblower among the thousands who have ever worked in the space industry.

Oh,no. There were at least two... Gus Grissom and Ronald Baron.. both died. One in the cockpit of a rocket that he hung a lemon from.. the other in a train/car crash after submitting a damning safety report...

That would pretty well shut everyone else up..

Also, NASA is compartmentalized... Hey, at my work I don't know what 95% of the people do or know and that's only 400 people.

NASA has strict levels of security.. you only know what your paid to know.

_Dave_ said:
Awhile back I watched a great movie called "Hidden Figures" about some women who were human calculators responsible for the enormously complicated calculations to get the first man into space and safely back to earth again so he could be picked up in a certain spot in the ocean. Orbital mathematics played a big part in those calculations.

Lots of math is "theoretical" it all works except.. when you want to send live men and women into a radiation belt.

I like this movie:

MartyF · Apr 9, 2019

Norman70 said:
the supernatural was an essential part of any religion

Exactly.

I’ll let you go find the forum for any religion.

_Dave_ · Apr 9, 2019

JacksBratt said:
I'm not saying that.. I'm saying that if they did see a flat earth.... there's no way they are going to admit it...

I'm telling you that is a logical fallacy.

Astronauts: We have over many years spent many thousands of man hours in space orbiting the earth and going to the moon, and none of us have ever reported seeing the earth as a flat disk or a pancake kind of thing sitting on pillars and covered with a dome.

Jack: That's because if you admitted it you'd lose your jobs and expose NASA's conspiracy.

Astronauts: That is not true. You're making that up. We didn't report seeing a flat earth because it simply isn't there. The earth is a sphere.

Jack: Well, that proves it then. Your denial proves the earth is flat.

You see what I am saying?

ilovejcsog · Apr 9, 2019

Does that mean that we don't have gravity since we don't need it with a flat earth?
What's on the bottom side of a flat earth?

ewq1938 · Apr 9, 2019

Flat Earth doesn't make sense. How about, "Non-Spherical Earth"?

YHWH_will_uplift · Apr 9, 2019

Like Elijah asked the children of Israel:

"And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the YHWH be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word."
- 1 Kings 18:21

The same principle applies here with the flat earth versus globe earth debate: either we believe the Bible on the description of the earth or we believe in man's description of the earth. Who will we trust about the earth, the Creator of the heavens, the earth, and the seas? or man who is but dust and ashes who was ignorant from the day of our creation and, brought death into the world through our disobedience?

Of course there are many among here and the world who are so puffed up with pride that they are not willing to humble themselves before God and admit their ignorance when it comes to His Word. God's Word is not difficult to understand to those who do not presume to have the answers to everything: this is the very sin which Adam and Eve committed in Eden, instead of humbling themselves before God in order to have knowledge of good and evil: they reached out and took that knowledge for themselves in their pride. From their story we may learn this about pride and humility:

The beginning of sin is pride. And the beginning of pride is the turning away from God.

The beginning of wisdom is humility. And the beginning of humility is the turning to God.

I wonder which side the OP and those who share his mind fall under?

The earth having four corners is not difficult to understand in its plain words: therefore the earth is a flat four sided two dimensional plane shape; the horizon of the seas is circular which means that it too is a two dimensional plane shape; and as Job and Isaiah say, the heavens are circular; and because Moses writes that the firmament is heaven and holds up the waters above to separate it from the waters below: it follows that the heavens are a solid dome; and we may prove this by observing the motion of the luminaries which travel in an arch path in the heavens, and the rainbow forms an arch as well: this is only possible in a clear solid dome structure.

YHWH_will_uplift · Apr 9, 2019

And for those who say they believe in the Word of God but, wish to hold onto their false belief of a globe earth (or whatever nightmarish garbage the false prophets of science come up with) please see how the Word of God proves that the earth does not move:

"Then spake Joshua to the YHWH in the day when the YHWH delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, 'Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.' And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the YHWH hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the YHWH fought for Israel."
- Joshua 10:12-14

We see that God did not command the earth to stop moving but, the Sun and the Moon:

GLOBE EARTH DOES NOT EXIST IN THE WORD OF GOD.

ewq1938 · Apr 9, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
And for those who say they believe in the Word of God but, wish to hold onto their false belief of a globe earth (or whatever nightmarish garbage the false prophets of science come up with) please see how the Word of God proves that the earth does not move:

Two things not moving that usually move does not prove the Earth does not move/spin.

Flat earth beliefs are totally in error.

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