First Commandment vs. First Amendment

[ThatRobGuy]

Who can envision the glorious utopia we’ll have when the Church runs the government!?
Just think of the Bible Camps!

I think it resembles the Inquisition.

...and not the cheeky kind depicted in the Book of Python

 

[durangodawood]

The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law". It says nothing about what God can do...

Nor does the commandment, which says what people must do.

But then here comes the US Constitution which explicitly rejects that.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

And if mankind chooses not to honor the commandment, they’re doomed into eternal fire.

Note that not all Christians (or even Christian denominations) ascribe to this belief.

That sounds more like an ultimatum. In my humble opinion, it is. That’s crux of the contradiction between the FA and the FC

The trouble with this is that those who don't follow the First Commandment don't care that they're not doing so. If someone doesn't believe that God exists, then why would they care if "God" says that they're going to be punished for not believing in Him? If someone believes in a different god, then why would they care what the Christian God dictates?

 

[Frėėthînkėr999]

These two statements from your post (pasted at bottom below) reinforce in my mind the glaring moral and foundational contradiction between the first amendment and the first commandment. The notion that non-Christian Americans are being or should be “punished”, whatever that means, is full frontal anathema and aspersión to the essence of the first amendment: one’s worth in our society is not dependent on which god we follow. We’re free to believe in any god of our choosing, or none at all:

I believe America is punished as well

and

There is little doubt we are punished for not worshipping Him but worshipping other deities.

 

[Frėėthînkėr999]

Note that not all Christians (or even Christian denominations) ascribe to this belief

True. I don’t have real numbers, but I would assume both intuitively and anecdotally that most do. The other point of discussion at that point becomes what is it that Christians understand as hell, and just in that topic there is some debate and sometimes opposed biblical hermeneutics

If someone doesn't believe that God exists, then why would they care if "God" says that they're going to be punished for not believing in Him?

That is true. For non-Christians, the contradictions is a non-issue. It has no implications in their life. But, when you start seeing things like school-initiated prayer in public schools, or 10 commandment effigies welcoming people to government courthouses, the contradiction becomes a reality and has profound impact. A topic that probably belongs in a different thread

 

[Frėėthînkėr999]

The first Commandment in the bible is for Gods people. Not for Government or secular people

So I would guess you’d agree that putting an effigy of the 10 commandments at the entrance or a government courthouse is an unequivocal affront to the first amendment. Right? If we are free to believe in any god we want, or none at all, and then suddenly are faced with the prospect of being judged for our behavior on this earthly planet under the premise of the first amendment, that right there is a glaring, full frontal, transcendental contradiction. And a scary proposition, for any non-Christian entering that courthouse

 

[Frėėthînkėr999]

There is no paradox or conflict between the first amendment and the first commandment at all. One is secular and the other spiritual.

So I would guess you’d agree that putting an effigy of the 10 commandments at the entrance or a government courthouse is an unequivocal affront to the first amendment. Right? If we are free to believe in any god we want, or none at all, and then suddenly are faced with the prospect of being judged for our behavior on this earthly planet under the premise of the first amendment, that right there is a glaring, full frontal, transcendental contradiction. And a scary proposition, for any non-Christian entering that courthouse

 

[Frėėthînkėr999]

The other is a secular provision providing a limitation on the involvement of the US government in religious affairs.

True, although in essence “the other” (the first amendment) pretty much defines our inalienable right to be free to believe in whichever deity we want, or none at all.

Under your premise, though, it is a clear, unequivocal, transcendental affront to the first amendment to have school-initiated prayers in public schools, or even worse, an effigy of the first commandment welcoming Americans to government courthouse buildings. Right ?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

That is true. For non-Christians, the contradictions is a non-issue. It has no implications in their life. But, when you start seeing things like school-initiated prayer in public schools, or 10 commandment effigies welcoming people to government courthouses, the contradiction becomes a reality and has profound impact. A topic that probably belongs in a different thread

I thought that was the topic of this thread. And no, it's not a contradiction. The scenarios you're laying out are violations of the first amendment, but to not do them would not violate the first commandment. The first commandment doesn't say that we must force others to pray or display our religious iconography on government property.

 

[Frėėthînkėr999]

The scenarios you're laying out are violations of the first amendment, but to not do them would not violate the first commandment. The first commandment doesn't say that we must force others to pray or display our religious iconography on government property.

Are you sure? I mean it’s clear to me, and you per your words, that school-sponsored praying and 10 commandment effigies would be a violation of first amendment. And that not doing that would not explicitly contradict the first commandment

But add a pinch of Matthew 28:18–20, sprinkle this warped notion that America is “a Christian Nation”, and suddenly you have millions of Americans in full frontal opposition to the first amendment, and actually voting and pursuing school prayers and 10 commandment effigies to greet those visiting a courthouse, cemented in law.

So as usual, it’s about hermeneutics and the myriad of interpretations that ensue.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

But add a pinch of Matthew 28:18–20, sprinkle this warped notion that America is “a Christian Nation”, and suddenly you have millions of Americans in full frontal opposition to the first amendment, and actually voting and pursuing school prayers and 10 commandment effigies to greet those visiting a courthouse, cemented in law.

So as usual, it’s about hermeneutics and the myriad of interpretations that ensue.

What you're describing isn't a conflict between the first amendment and the first commandment, which was the original position you started from. The first commandment says nothing about proselytizing - it's simply about your personal belief in God.

You're right that it devolves into hermeneutics - it's just that the source of the conflict isn't the first commandment, as you originally posited.

 

[Brihaha]

These two statements from your post (pasted at bottom below) reinforce in my mind the glaring moral and foundational contradiction between the first amendment and the first commandment. The notion that non-Christian Americans are being or should be “punished”, whatever that means, is full frontal anathema and aspersión to the essence of the first amendment: one’s worth in our society is not dependent on which god we follow. We’re free to believe in any god of our choosing, or none at all:



and

God gave us enough free will (rope to hang ourselves) to let us choose whether to worship Him alone, which absolutely is in conflict or contradiction with the first amendment. America will end up suffering the same consequences as other dynasties throughout history. It is possible they never last due to their inability to heed God's word. I don't pretend to know or understand His will, but my mind is always pondering the possibilities. I think God could punish America for the worshipping of other deities as well as for the self described Christians who deem themselves faithful while their actions do not match their faith. And in James 2:26 God declared faith without works is as dead as the body without a spirit.