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First: Being right with oneself or being right with God?

Gustaf

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A sister has the thought (or theory) that to be right with God, one must first be right with oneself.
In other words, if one is not right with oneself, one cannot be right with anything or enjoy anything...

What do you think about this? Could I be right, or is it rather an unbiblical position?
Thank you very much to all who participated.

I apologize if I posted this question in the wrong category.

This text was translated from Spanish using Google Translate. There may be inconsistencies.
 

timf

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There is a lot of pop psychology that has made its way into Christian parlance and as a result seems to have meaning but upon closer examination leaves questions unanswered.

Like self-esteem, loving yourself, forgiving yourself, and even finding yourself, "self" is at the core of these ideas.

Christianity is supposed to be about growing in Christ-likeness. This is the opposite of self.

2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
 
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ViaCrucis

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A sister has the thought (or theory) that to be right with God, one must first be right with oneself.
In other words, if one is not right with oneself, one cannot be right with anything or enjoy anything...

What do you think about this? Could I be right, or is it rather an unbiblical position?
Thank you very much to all who participated.

I apologize if I posted this question in the wrong category.

This text was translated from Spanish using Google Translate. There may be inconsistencies.

There is a term for this idea, it's "self-righteousness", autojustificación.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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timothyu

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In other words, if one is not right with oneself, one cannot be right with anything or enjoy anything...
Depends what that is supposed to mean. Looking to find oneself? One cannot be right with anything if one is focused on self and self interest. The secret is to focus on the well being of all. The original sin was 'self' when Eve, then Adam, chose their will over the will of God. This set the 'self' concept in motion. hence self-awareness, self-interest, self-justification, etc and all the self oriented ways of man that has created all the problems in this world we have made in our own self-image. God, since the Garden, has repeatedly told mankind to reverse our ways and reject the selfishness in others and ourselves. He gave us commandments to give examples of our backwardness. Jesus summed it up in two commandments on how to get our acts together. Put God's will first which is love all as self. So far few have bothered to follow this advice yet still expect to find a home in the Kingdom.
 
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Laodicean60

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Depends what that is supposed to mean. Looking to find oneself? One cannot be right with anything if one is focused on self and self interest.
Yep, just look at the world around us.
 
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com7fy8

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A sister has the thought (or theory) that to be right with God, one must first be right with oneself.
How does she say that you become right with yourself?

You can not make your own self right. Only God through Jesus is able to make us right.

And as God makes us right, this makes us right with God and right for our own good. So, the two work together, all thanks to God.

But we have the parable of the prodigal son. He came to his senses, first, before he went to his father in order to make things right with his father. So, yes, someone could argue that he got right with himself, first. However, a person does not change one's own self into an honest and humble person. But God changes the sinner so then the person is right with God and with oneself. If you come to your senses, this is because God is blessing you to.

If it were to be what you do, this would not be enough. But God's grace does all that is truly right.
In other words, if one is not right with oneself, one cannot be right with anything or enjoy anything...
This is true, but God is the One who changes the person to be right with God and right for good living.

And with God we enjoy loving any and all people. But if a person tries to make one's own self right, the person can only love certain people.

But Jesus wants us to love any and all people >

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

And because God's love is so kind and pleasant, we enjoy living in this love for any person. Our Creator's love makes us creative for how to love each person. This loving is enjoyable much better than having pleasures we like.
What do you think about this? Could I be right, or is it rather an unbiblical position?
What Bible scriptures would you use for what you mean, please?

Yes, God "gives us richly all things to enjoy", we have in 1 Timothy 6:17. But first we need to get right with God so we can enjoy things the right way. And what we value, for enjoying, will develop as we mature in Jesus and His way of loving.
Thank you very much to all who participated.

I apologize if I posted this question in the wrong category.

This text was translated from Spanish using Google Translate. There may be inconsistencies.
No pasa nada. (That's all right . . . no problem).
 
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Yarddog

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A sister has the thought (or theory) that to be right with God, one must first be right with oneself.
In other words, if one is not right with oneself, one cannot be right with anything or enjoy anything...

What do you think about this? Could I be right, or is it rather an unbiblical position?
Thank you very much to all who participated.

I apologize if I posted this question in the wrong category.

This text was translated from Spanish using Google Translate. There may be inconsistencies.
The only way to be right with oneself is to surrender to God.
 
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d taylor

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A sister has the thought (or theory) that to be right with God, one must first be right with oneself.
In other words, if one is not right with oneself, one cannot be right with anything or enjoy anything...

What do you think about this? Could I be right, or is it rather an unbiblical position?
Thank you very much to all who participated.

I apologize if I posted this question in the wrong category.

This text was translated from Spanish using Google Translate. There may be inconsistencies.
-
Want to show me this ( First: Being right with oneself ) from theses verses.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
------------------------------
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
------------------------------
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
------------------------------
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is
condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only
begotten Son of God.
------------------------------
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
------------------------------
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
------------------------------
Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”
Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
------------------------------
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believe in Me has everlasting life.
------------------------------
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
------------------------------
but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
 
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stevevw

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A sister has the thought (or theory) that to be right with God, one must first be right with oneself.
In other words, if one is not right with oneself, one cannot be right with anything or enjoy anything...

What do you think about this? Could I be right, or is it rather an unbiblical position?
Thank you very much to all who participated.

I apologize if I posted this question in the wrong category.

This text was translated from Spanish using Google Translate. There may be inconsistencies.
Thank God that we don't have to be right with self before we can come to God. In fact I would say its not being right with self that brings people to their knees before God.

But in some ways you could say that coming to God is making your self right first. They sort of happen at the same time. Getting right first implies there is some process or way of getting right first and that you are not in the right place.

So if God is the ultimate way to get things right then coming to God as part of getting right will go hand in hand with also coming to God. God makes us right. In fact its the ultimate making things right because God knows better than anyone. So why not start with God full stop.

Its a paradox that we have to give in to God to win so to speak and not the other way around in first making ourselves right on our own efforts. . Its when we give in to God that we then begin to win and make things right.

If there are psychological issues, addiction or trauma then this is when the work starts for getting things right in every area. You first get the spiritual right and then God helps with making all the areas of your life right.
 
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ViaCrucis

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It's really easy to be right with oneself, because if I just indulge my every whim of passion, without conscience, without the external guidance of God's Law which both educates me about right and wrong as well as condemn me because I am, indeed, wrong; then I can do anything and I will always be right--because I am myself, doing whatever I want.

If I have absolutely zero empathy for others, regard no one and nothing as having value other than myself--then I can do anything and be fine with it. That is Selfishness as a "virtue", and I can justify literally anything: lying, stealing, cheating, rape, murder. This is literally the basis, the source, of every and all moral evil in the world.

There must, therefore, be some sort of external control. A law. Even before we talk about God's Law, we can just as easily talk about "natural law", the sort of innate recognition most people have, because we are naturally social creatures who exist in communities with other people, and so we sort of intuitively get that we have to get along--so going around killing people or generally being really nasty isn't fruitful toward the building of human societies where we also have to depend on one another for food, shelter, and protection from hostile forces (perhaps another tribe that is competing with our tribe for the same resources and may consider eliminating us the most efficient way to secure those resources; or perhaps wild animals that are dangerous, or perhaps just the unpredictability of the weather). And so we intuitively get that cooperation is better than going around murdering one another all the time, and as we exist in societies we also then teach our children that it's good to share, that obeying those in authority is usually good, work things out with others by talking rather than fighting, etc. And so societies grow, exist, and sometimes we even do okay for a while.

That's why we have systems of justice in place, rules, which govern human conduct. Because we need an external force to say, "Get along", because even if 9 out of 10 people will prefer to cooperate than murder one another, there's always that 1 person who, for whatever reason, thinks "Hey, that person has food, I'm hungry, I should just take it, and maybe kill them so that they won't be competition in the future when I want food" or something along those lines. So we develop rules of law, systems of justice, and we enforce these systems through organizational efforts like courts and so forth. And, generally, human societies work, more or less, at least for a while.

So on a purely mundane level, "self justification" just doesn't work as a principle, because we have to be "other-justified" we have to do right by one another, in order to survive. That's the foundational principle of all human societies and civilization: We have to get along, and that means treating one another fairly.

But then, when talking about what it means to actually be Righteous or Just, with a capital 'R' or 'J', in that God says, "Do this" or "This is how things ought to be", well now we are talking more than just how to get along but instead talking about a cosmic sense of Justice, well that's where things get even bigger and more serious--and that's where the problem of Sin--and our proclivity of self-justification--is really the heart of the issue. The actual problem with everything in the world actually is ourselves, we're the problem, and self-justification (sin) is the reason we're the problem.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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stevevw

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I was thinking about this some more and another thought came to mind. In some ways giving in to God to win and make things right doesn't just apply to a non believer who believes that they have to make things right on their own before being right with God.

This happens to Christians as well. We seem to have a default nature I guess you could call it. Or an inclination to try to sort things our ourselves first. Like the situation may overwhelm us or we get caught up in whatever is going on and think we have a handle on it.

Then later when we think about it on reflection we realise we forgot to ask God or take it to God in the first place. Its like try this way and that way and God is 3rd option sometimes. Thats why I think pray is important as it can become a routine of reflection on whats going on in your life to tell God about. Even the little things I reckon. Its easy to forget sometimes with all the distractions of modern life.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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A sister has the thought (or theory) that to be right with God, one must first be right with oneself.
In other words, if one is not right with oneself, one cannot be right with anything or enjoy anything...

What do you think about this? Could I be right, or is it rather an unbiblical position?
Thank you very much to all who participated.

I apologize if I posted this question in the wrong category.

This text was translated from Spanish using Google Translate. There may be inconsistencies.

I would need to have some clarification about what precisely your sister means by the phrase, "...be right with oneself."

Has she explained at any length what she intends to mean by this?
 
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Jermayn

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A sister has the thought (or theory) that to be right with God, one must first be right with oneself.
In other words, if one is not right with oneself, one cannot be right with anything or enjoy anything...

What do you think about this? Could I be right, or is it rather an unbiblical position?
Thank you very much to all who participated.

I apologize if I posted this question in the wrong category.

This text was translated from Spanish using Google Translate. There may be inconsistencies.
I think I understand what you’re getting at, especially in the sense that a person needs to recognize their own sin before they can confess it and be saved. That kind of self-awareness is important.

However, the way your sister phrased it could be misunderstood to mean that someone needs to “get their life in order” before they can come to God. That idea isn't biblical. Scripture teaches that we come to God as we are, and He is the one who makes us right. Romans 5:8 reminds us that “while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

So while inner peace and self-understanding are valuable, they’re the result of being made right with God, not the requirement for it.
 
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