Fire out of the mouth

[Fireinfolding]

Peace be to you in Christ

I had just posted a shorter version of this at CARM (adding a little more into it for here)

But one of my questions (in respects to the two witnesses) was concerning what the fire is that is being shown proceeding out of the mouth of the two in Rev 11:5?

Would they be like human blow torches? Could they open their mouths and instantly become walking a human flame throwers?

That type thing.

Also, wouldnt their lips get burnt?

(Okay, just teasin' wit chu)

I'll be serious.

What if it can be shown elsewhere in scripture to be speaking after a different manner of fire?

I lean to the latter but usually some animosity will start between the two perspectives which is also understandable, that too is the outworking of a very biblical principal I believe.

But here for instance, God says this

Jerm 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, ((behold)) I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.


And then here we see (of His two witnesses) this...

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

So we have what can be comparable between the two

The word/ mouth/ fire/ men/ devoured/ and in this manner to be killed

Slain (meaning to be killed) here also

Hosea 6:5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

So we have (in combination)

I have slain (killed) by the words of my mouth

And,

behold I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

And

if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies:

And again,

if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

It speaks there of "the manner" in which anyone who would "hurt them" must be killed

And then recall when the disciples said

Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

So notice he says,

Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of

Wouldnt the spirit ye are of (in that thing) be reflective of this manner?

And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men

Those two look like a similar comparison

Because we have the disciples (when asking to the Lord if they should command fire to come down from heaven) Jesus pointed out that they really knew notthe manner of spirit they were of.

But where it speaks of the fire out of the mouth (of the two witnesses) it mentions there the manner in which those (who would seek to hurt them) were to be killed (but not the manner of spirit they are of).

Obviously these two belong to God.

So as I asked there is it considered out of the question that the words out of their mouths is that fire?

Since it can be shown elsewhere in scripture and speaks to "the manner" in which they would be killed (even by the fire out of the mouth) verses the other, "fire come down from heaven" (in the sight of men) which seems somewhat reflective of "the manner of" spirit that could be shown in the other comparisons?

Do you know what I mean jelly beans?

I figured I would post to ask this here (including a little more)

Our God richly bless you in Christ Jesus the Lord

 

[Fireinfolding]

Okay, so when I did ask

What do you believe the people of the earth are tormented by in these two?

What pertains to being "in them"? As you can catch two things

For example in Zechariah

We see the golden oil

(which would be... "representive of"...?)

Zechariah 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him,

What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

Zechariah 4:13 And he answered me and said,

Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

Zechariah 4:14 Then said he,

These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

And here we see a fire

(which again is "representative of"...?)

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth,

and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

And here likewise (to compare "this word fire")

Jerm 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts,

Because ye speak this word,

(( behold )) I will make my words in thy mouth fire,

and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

Then I asked (after showing it in this way) would it be agreeable that the golden oil (is the Holy Spirit) and the fire (is this word/my words) in their mouths?

And given that the people of the earth are tormented by these

And since fear hath torment could not the same be connected in that way?

Like the godly (as another had rightly pointed out to me) tormenting the ungodly there (but as it might pertain more to fear)

For example,

In Acts when Paul preached the faith of Christ, of righteousness and of the judgment to come and it says, and Felix trembled, and sent Paul away because he apparently wasnt hearing jingle bells. So could not the torment (which is shown in the people of the earth there with the two) be of the same fear? Like the inner response of the ungodly (even as it is shown in Felix) to a certain degree which come to him by the message of those (like Paul) who live godly in Christ?

Given it does show one is tormented (even as by the other) even as the other is persecuted (of the other) or those who seek to live godly (not otherwise) in Christ, who it confirms shall be persecuted.

So fear hath torment (as the same is shown in the people of the earth)

And God can be shown as laying the fear of the one upon others as it shows the same here....

Duet 11:25 There shall no man be able to stand before you: for the LORD your God shall lay the fear of you and the dread of you upon all the land that ye shall tread upon, as he hath said unto you.

Okay, just adding (and editing and adding again) to this thread, theres other things I am catching that I hadnt seen before either but I am sort of sitting on those yet and really dont know how to ask after them. I'll post those when I have more Lord willing.

I keep editing into this, at some point it will get worse if I keep doing that, it always seems to happen that way.

Anything further I will post beneathe

 

[Job8]

But one of my questions (in respects to the two witnesses) was concerning what the fire is that is being shown proceeding out of the mouth of the two in Rev 11:5?

There is nothing too complicated here. Elijah will literally and physically be one of the two witnesses, and as he called fire down from heaven (2 Kgs 1:8-16) he will do the same during the Tribulation.

 

[Fireinfolding]

There is nothing too complicated here. Elijah will literally and physically be one of the two witnesses, and as he called fire down from heaven (2 Kgs 1:8-16) he will do the same during the Tribulation.

Thats not where the fire of the two witnesses comes from

In the two witnesses it is the mouth

Even here shows fire come down from heaven (as they understood it through Elijah) saying...

Luke 9:54 Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them,
even as Elias did?

See?

Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

Here is someone doing that

Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

You see Elijah doing this correct?

Show me where the fire in revelation (in the two witnesses) as it pertains to this fire down from heaven ( between Elijah and either witness)

We know who went forth in the Spirit and power of Elijah was John

In what Spirit was that? Which was in Elijah?

How did John reflect this fire coming down from heaven thing associated with the same?

How do the two witnesses in revelation reflect this fire down from heaven thing?

And why did Jesus say they didnt know what spirit they were of in relation to commanding fire to come down from heaven (as Elijah did)

I need proof, help me out

 

[Job8]

Thats not where the fire of the two witnesses comes from

In the two witnesses it is the mouth

We should be able to discern when a metaphor is used and when it is not. Just as a"sword" out of the mouth of Christ represents the power of His Word, "fire out of the mouth" means words spoken to bring down supernatural fire from Heaven.

Luke 9:54 Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them,
even as Elias did?

Context is key. When the Lord rebuked them, He was on earth not to condemn sinners but to save them. The two witnesses will testify when the Antichrist is in control and the ungodly are on this earth during the Tribulation. "They will smite the earth with all plagues", since the day of grace is past and the day of wrath is in place. Big difference.

Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

This is another scenario altogether, where the beast out of the earth does Satanic miracles. Here Satan will duplicate (or counterfeit) what God does, in order to deceive humanity.

The "proof" you are looking for is to simply "rightly divide [interpret] the Word of Truth". We need to look at context and we need to discern metaphor from literal language, comparing Scripture with Scripture.

 

[Fireinfolding]

We should be able to discern when a metaphor is used and when it is not. Just as a"sword" out of the mouth of Christ represents the power of His Word, "fire out of the mouth" means words spoken to bring down supernatural fire from Heaven.


Context is key. When the Lord rebuked them, He was on earth not to condemn sinners but to save them. The two witnesses will testify when the Antichrist is in control and the ungodly are on this earth during the Tribulation. "They will smite the earth with all plagues", since the day of grace is past and the day of wrath is in place. Big difference.

This is another scenario altogether, where the beast out of the earth does Satanic miracles. Here Satan will duplicate (or counterfeit) what God does, in order to deceive humanity.

The "proof" you are looking for is to simply "rightly divide [interpret] the Word of Truth". We need to look at context and we need to discern metaphor from literal language, comparing Scripture with Scripture.

Thank you so much I never knew rightly dividing the word of truth and context and discerning a metaphor was so important.

Im so glad you found me, where have you been all my life?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Here we go (fire out of the mouth) and coming down from heaven lol

 

[Fireinfolding]

But we need two fire breathing people

Here we go...

And there they are burning some guy to death with their mouth powers

Computer animation ?

(I so cant keep a straight face )

 

[rockytopva]

I am a Lab Tech at a large factory. I also was motivated enough to study chemistry and get a couple of associate degrees in the science field. I find that ...

E (energy) = M (mass) c (light)2

And we can divide and conclude that...

M (that which has weight) = E/c2 (basically plasma, or fire as you have stated)

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. - James 1:17

For our God is a consuming fire. - Hebrews 12:29

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

The elements were forged with E/c2 and it looks like they will disassociate back into the light and energy, plasma, or fire as you say, from whence they were forged. I would then say they will re-associate into mass when God uses the energy and light from the known universe and does something else with it.

And how precious will that day be when we are re-united with friends and family long ago departed from our presence!

Well... Fire out of the mouth... It is an easy thing for God to dis-associate atoms into plasma... I would not want to be in the way of those whom god gave this ability!

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. -
2 Peter 3:13

There is a spiritual E/c2.. Which is...

E - Energy, motivation, love, warmth
c2- Light, faith, hope, charity, joy

It is going to be a good thing to experience these energies in the new heaven and the new earth!

 

[Fireinfolding]

Thanks for the addition to the thread

 

[com7fy8]

Yes, Jesus rebuked the disciples about their wanting to call down fire to kill people who refused Jesus and them.

But in Revelation it is clear there is to be a time of vengeance. And the overall meaning of Revelation appears to me to be that during the great tribulation people against God will be killed in great numbers and there will be great torments for evil people.

So, I accept that the two witnesses will have supernatural ability to send fire out against ones who want to hurt them. It does say they must be "killed" in this manner. So, I consider, then, that the fire will be a killing fire, not only a fiery message of God's word.

Of course, God's word can kill our own person of selfish ego; but also God's word can minister us into the image of Jesus. And "our God is a consuming fire," as has already been quoted above. Fire can kill germs and burn away smelly and nasty stuff, and fire can cook something to bring out its flavor and nutrition. God's love in us can change us to become sweet-smelling to our Father and nutritious for one another, feeding each other our example of love

So, yes "fire" can have more than one meaning, in the Bible

If the witnesses have ability to physically kill with fire, it will be a supernatural ability, including that the fire does not hurt them. You might consider how Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego were thrown into that fiery furnace but it did not effect them, at all, but those flames killed the men who threw them in there. So, like this . . . the witnesses can have fire even in their mouths but it does not hurt them.

This can help us to see, in any case, how we can be safe from things that are meant against evil people. God has self-control; He can be like a mother bear keeping her cubs safe near her tummy while she is smacking a pack of wolves > her wrath does not hurt her own babies, though they are in the middle of the battle.

About, by the way, if Elijah will be one of the witnesses . . . Jesus said John the Baptist was Elijah. And John died. So, if Jesus means really that Elijah came back as John, then Elijah has died once, already.

But what matters the most to me is that Revelation means we need to be ready for our Groom Jesus. We need however our Father corrects us (Hebrews 12:6-11) so we are loving in our nature like He is sharing with us > "Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

And we need to care about the people of this world, not wanting them to be killed and condemned, but have compassion in prayer for any and all people > 1 Timothy 2:1-4. So, even if our Father will have witnesses serving Him while taking out enemies with fire, right now we are specialists in love and mercy and compassion and forgiveness.

And it would be interesting to talk about what the two witnesses are witnesses to

Most of all, have we in ourselves witnessed how God makes Himself at home in us, by forming Jesus in us??? In us, we can be His dwelling place, by being like Jesus > Galatians 4:19. This way, our Father can enjoy Himself in us while He is dealing with managing all things and this evil world around us > 2 Corinthians 2:14-16, with Ephesians 5:1-2.

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

 

[Fireinfolding]

Hey thanks for your addition to the thread

Yes our God is a consuming fire as His word is like unto a fire.

Although, if it comes out of the mouth I doubt its the kind of fire used to "disinfect, kill germs, cook or add flavor" to something.

There is natural fire (the bar be que kind ) and what could be coined a spiritual fire (or the words of God)

I think the mouth is key to what kind of fire it is speaking of

And since other comparisons in scripture shows Him stating he would make the words of their mouth (as it relates to speaking His word) a fire, and shown killing by the words of his mouth also, could be His words.

I believe His word as spoken through the Holy Ghost would be quite powerful to see folks dropping dead without needing to be walking bic lighters.

Perfect example of that would be Ananias, with his wife Sapphira both dropped dead after hearing words (Acts 5:5, 9, 10 & (and great fear fell upon those that heard it).

And the Spirit and power of Elijah John was to come in was to turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers. The Spirit in both John and Elijah was the Holy Ghost (as John was filled with the same from the womb).

With the two olive trees

Theres the golden oil (shown before hand) and the fire (even the word) shown afterward in relation to the two witnesses, these being the same.

And I agree, Jesus told them that the Elijah for to come was John because all of the law and prophets prophesied until John (who would prepare the way before Christ).

You can see paterns between Elijah and Elisha, and John and Jesus Christ when comparing, "lest I smite the earth with a curse" follows after the picture of Elijah and Jesus said to John that it becometh us (in respects to the two) to fulfill all rightousness, the double portion of the Spirit in the former picture I beleive speaks to the time then present. But I do believe it show patterns in them when you compare between them.

Thanks again, God bless