Finney anyone?

[JJB]

Read quite a bit of Finney way back in the Keith Green (remember him?) days. 25+ yrs ago. From what I recall, his was the most convoluted excersize in mental gymnastics I ever read. Extreme legalism, extreme arminianism, denies the atonement, etc., et.al.

For years I wanted to find where he was buried so I could dig him up and burn that heretic at the stake for the misery his spewings put my mind through. I've mellowed with age .... would be satisfied with just burning all his books and sermons.

I do remember Keith Green -- I was alive then, too.

Alas, I did swim for awhile in the "churchianity of today" pool. Happy to be a slave to righteousness (Jesus)!

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

I do remember Keith Green -- I was alive then, too.

Alas, I did swim for awhile in the "churchianity of today" pool. Happy to be a slave to righteousness (Jesus)!

RC Sproul has a great article on this topic, titled, "The Pelagian Captivity of the Church", here;

http://www.bible-researcher.com/sproul1.html

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

I do recall several people in here expressing an interest in reading about Finney. I don't recall if yer fer or agin' him, but I did run across this today:

http://www.tiu.edu/files/divinity/trinityjournal/smith.pdf

Uh, no thanks. i've already reviewed and rejected the exclusive governmental theory of the atonement. If i want to deal with that nonsense, i'd look up the sorce. That would be a fellow named Grotius (Google the name for those of you who are curious, or consult Vol II of Hodge's Systematic Theology.)

 

[bradfordl]

Keith Green's minstry put out a Finney tract called "Break up the Fallow Ground". Scary bit of heresy it was, left me shaking in my boots. Said I had to go back through my life and remember every single sin I'd ever committed, and repent of each individually to be saved. The impossibility of that was overwhelming.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Keith Green's minstry put out a Finney tract called "Break up the Fallow Ground". Scary bit of heresy it was, left me shaking in my boots. Said I had to go back through my life and remember every single sin I'd ever committed, and repent of each individually to be saved. The impossibility of that was overwhelming.

At first, I though Keith Green was an Armstrongite.

 

[lmnop9876]

I'd like to know how you came to that conclusion.

i have no problem with saying that someone is a false teacher and a heretic (and therefore not a Christian) in this life, but we cannot presume on the state of any person in the world to come (unless we know for sure that they cursed God with their dying breath.) most Jews at the time of Christ would have assumed that the thief on the cross would go to hell, but Christ knew otherwise, because of his faith at death.
i haven't yet worked out what to make of Finney's dying words, "I haven't apostasized, have I?" what do you think of them? perhaps they indicate that he was still strongly holding to his own works-based theology of salvation, or perhaps they indicate that he, in his own heart, doubted his own theology of salvation, and was being turned by God to the truth? we don't know, so we can't judge his eternal salvation.

 

[JJB]

RC Sproul has a great article on this topic, titled, "The Pelagian Captivity of the Church", here;

http://www.bible-researcher.com/sproul1.html

Very good article. Thanks for the link.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

i have no problem with saying that someone is a false teacher and a heretic (and therefore not a Christian) in this life, but we cannot presume on the state of any person in the world to come (unless we know for sure that they cursed God with their dying breath.) most Jews at the time of Christ would have assumed that the thief on the cross would go to hell, but Christ knew otherwise, because of his faith at death.
i haven't yet worked out what to make of Finney's dying words, "I haven't apostasized, have I?" what do you think of them? perhaps they indicate that he was still strongly holding to his own works-based theology of salvation, or perhaps they indicate that he, in his own heart, doubted his own theology of salvation, and was being turned by God to the truth? we don't know, so we can't judge his eternal salvation.

So, in other words, your argument is one of a personal philosophical nature, is subjective and not based on the objective truth of Scripture.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, All

Finney, all I can say is no thanks...

I found this today while blog reading:

http://www.tiu.edu/files/divinity/trinityjournal/smith.pdf

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[JJB]

Good Day, All

Finney, all I can say is no thanks...

I found this today while blog reading:

http://www.tiu.edu/files/divinity/trinityjournal/smith.pdf

Peace to u,

Bill

compare your link to the link in the OP.

 

[lmnop9876]

So, in other words, your argument is one of a personal philosophical nature, is subjective and not based on the objective truth of Scripture.

if you want to put it that way, then fine, i don't mind. my argument is based on clear reasoning from Scripture. i refuse to say that anyone is damned or in hell (not even hitler or mussolini or nero), there is no way you can know whether they repented at the last minute like the thief on the cross did.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

So, in other words, your argument is one of a personal philosophical nature, is subjective and not based on the objective truth of Scripture.

if you want to put it that way, then fine, i don't mind. my argument is based on clear reasoning from Scripture.

I put it that was because of the very fact that to date, you have not presented one shred of Scriptural evidence that supports you philosophical argument.

Therefore, if your argument is truly one derived from "clear reasoning from Scripture", do you not think it a good idea to give credence to that assertion with actual Scriptural evidence?

i refuse to say that anyone is damned or in hell (not even hitler or mussolini or nero), there is no way you can know whether they repented at the last minute like the thief on the cross did.

You are certainly entitled to hold that philosophical opinion.

 

[lmnop9876]

You are certainly entitled to hold that philosophical opinion.

the thief on the cross is my Scriptural evidence. if God can save him at the moment of death, then why not even the worst heretic? do you know that finney did not repent at the moment of death? do you know that he did not reject his heresies? if not, then we cannot judge whether he is saved or not. to the majority of the people who saw the two thieves (most likely not only thieves but murderers, possibly rebels and terrorists too), they would have been sure that those two were going to hell. only God and the thief knew that he was going to heaven and not to hell, while many of those who stood scoffing at the foot of the cross would one day find themselves in hell.

 

[BBAS 64]

http://www.banneroftruth.org/pages/articles/article_detail.php?1071

Yet another, Nick Needham has a real audio church history session on Finney, I just can not find it......


*****************

Edit found it!!

http://www.wicketgate.co.uk/p10.html

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Peace to u,

Bill

 

[bradfordl]

Now that's a scary picture!