Fine tuning, a new approach

[joshua 1 9]

My point remains whether god specifically says he can't lie (vocally or written), or whether his word describes his nature as such.

I think the point is that God is able to do what He says He will do. According to Moses: "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?" "For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth."

 

[[serious]]

I think the point is that God is able to do what He says He will do. According to Moses: "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?" "For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth."

Yet another aspect of God that seems like it must have been fine tuned.

 

[JaneC]

Yet another aspect of God that seems like it must have been fine tuned.

Why will no one say why and for whom it was all 'fine tuned'?
OK it was fine tuned, but what did it and who was it done for?

 

[[serious]]

Why will no one say why and for whom it was all 'fine tuned'?
OK it was fine tuned, but what did it and who was it done for?

I'm going with beetles. They've had a REALLY good run and are still going strong.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Sorry, it has been a while since I studied the Big Bang. I was thinking the singularity existed at one planck time, but that is not exactly correct. General Relativity equations predict that the universe was, at one time, a singularity with infinite density and heat. However, prior to the point in time 1*10^-43 seconds after the beginning of the universe, classic physics models break down, and it is thought that quantum effects dominated, and no meaningful models can be extracted. There may not have even been a singularity, and there are models which describe something other than a singularity, even some which posit an infinite universe. But the point is that it is currently beyond our ability to describe what happened between the singularity (if there was one) and planck time=1.

At planck time=1, classic physics apply. Prior to that, we can't know. We don't know if there was nothing, or if there was something, or what that something could have been.

Why then does Krauss write a book about nothing being something. Because most physicists do believe that the singularity whatever it is came out of nothing.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Same as the evidence for it not existing. But even if it were empty, what is the value of pi when you don't have a circle?

How does that relate?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Why will no one say why and for whom it was all 'fine tuned'?
OK it was fine tuned, but what did it and who was it done for?

It was fine tuned for the universe to exist and for life in it.

 

[JaneC]

It was fine tuned for the universe to exist and for life in it.

That is pathetic.

 

[Oncedeceived]

That is pathetic.

Why is that pathetic? That is what scientists are claiming are you unaware?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Yet another aspect of God that seems like it must have been fine tuned.

Just how plumb and how level can you get something?

 

[JaneC]

That is what scientists are claiming are you unaware?

Is that what you believe? what else do the scientists say that you believe? they say there was no world wide flood do you believe that?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Why will no one say why and for whom it was all 'fine tuned'?

I did construction work for 50 years. Errors get bigger and bigger the further along you go. I can pretty much work with anything if it is within an inch. I have twice had to deal with four inches of sloppy error. Once when I was hanging a garage door and once when I was installing a kitchen. The kitchen was a lot more easy then the garage door. But when you look at the bubble it could still be in between the lines. If you are fifty feet away from this bubble you could have a huge amount of error. If you are a whole universe away from the beginning then the error could translate out to be huge.

 

[bhsmte]

I did construction work for 50 years. Errors get bigger and bigger the further along you go. I can pretty much work with anything if it is within an inch. I have twice had to deal with four inches of sloppy error. Once when I was hanging a garage door and once when I was installing a kitchen. The kitchen was a lot more easy then the garage door. But when you look at the bubble it could still be in between the lines. If you are fifty feet away from this bubble you could have a huge amount of error. If you are a whole universe away from the beginning then the error could translate out to be huge.

Open a thread on construction.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Is that what you believe? what else do the scientists say that you believe? they say there was no world wide flood do you believe that?

I don't know enough about geology to say. However about the universe, that is what scientists have discovered and they have the scientific evidence that backs that claim. Could they be wrong, of course, but as of now that is what scientists are telling us.

And again...what is pathetic?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Open a thread on construction.

We are talking about fine tuning.
I can not find any photos on line. I may have to get out my camera and take my own photos. I do have photos from when they were building the bridge across the river. How fine tuned do you think the support beams need to be in order to fit? If they do not fit how much are the workers able to force the beam in order to get it to fit? I will make you a bet. If you ask the workers building the bridge if they believe in mind over matter, I bet every one of them will say that they do. Remember getting the beam to FIT on one end may make it difficult to get it to fit on the other end.

You can have all your theories. I know how to get it to work in the real world. "When the rubber meets the road".

 

[lesliedellow]

Same as the evidence for it not existing. But even if it were empty, what is the value of pi when you don't have a circle?

What exactly might that mean? Circles are a mathematical abstraction, and they exist because we say they do. In any case, pi can be defined in more than one way. It could, for example, be defined as -i * log(-1).

 

[JaneC]

And again...what is pathetic?

It's pathetic that you would believe such nonsense as 'fine tuning' because it's an obvious creationist con.
Why don't you just believe your Bible and leave others to believe what they want to believe? what difference does it make to you what others believe? if everyone believed as you do would it make it anymore true or less true than it is now? no.

 

[lesliedellow]

It's pathetic that you would believe such nonsense as 'fine tuning' because it's an obvious creationist con.

"Scientists are slowly waking up to an inconvenient truth - the universe looks suspiciously like a fix. The issue concerns the very laws of nature themselves. For 40 years, physicists and cosmologists have been quietly collecting examples of all too convenient 'coincidences' and special features in the underlying laws of the universe that seem to be necessary in order for life, and hence conscious beings, to exist. Change any one of them and the consequences would be lethal. Fred Hoyle, the distinguished cosmologist, once said it was as if 'a super- intellect has monkeyed with physics'" (Paul Davies)

Paul Davies is more open minded than some, but he is no theist, let alone a creationist.

 

[bhsmte]

We are talking about fine tuning.
I can not find any photos on line. I may have to get out my camera and take my own photos. I do have photos from when they were building the bridge across the river. How fine tuned do you think the support beams need to be in order to fit? If they do not fit how much are the workers able to force the beam in order to get it to fit? I will make you a bet. If you ask the workers building the bridge if they believe in mind over matter, I bet every one of them will say that they do. Remember getting the beam to FIT on one end may make it difficult to get it to fit on the other end.

You can have all your theories. I know how to get it to work in the real world. "When the rubber meets the road".

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[joshua 1 9]

What is the value of pi when you look at a square?

Pi or the golden ratio has to do with a nautilus shell in the ocean that has to deal with the motion of the waves caused by gravity of the earth and the gravity of the moon. The shape and the thickness are both important for survival. This is why we end up with fibonacci numbers: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, etc. So Pi or Fibonacci numbers apply to the sea shell, the weather patterns (tornado) and the photos we get from the Hubble of Spirals Galaxies in our Universe. The same math for a sea shell or a whole Galaxy because of what we call the Law of Gravity.

The Golden Rectangle, and the relation between the Fibonacci Sequence and the Golden Ratio.
A Golden Rectangle is a rectangle in which the ratio of the length to the width is the Golden Ratio

1+1=2 / 1+2=3 / 2+3=5 / 3+5=8 / 5+8=13 / 8+13=21 / 13+21=34 / 21+34=55 / 34+55=89
The exact same precision you have in the beginning is maintained to the end. This is an example of fine tuning.