Fine tuning, a new approach

[46AND2]

. For example: God can not lie.

How do you know this?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Hence, the pretending to know and all the blanket assumptions you will see.

We do not have to be great pretenders because we can always trust in a God that is greater then ourselves. We do not EVER have to disappoint people or let them down because God always has the answers and the solutions they need. We do not always get what we want, because God is good and we do not always want what is best for us. He always wants what is best for us because of His love for us.

 

[joshua 1 9]

How do you know this?

Because this is what we read in the Bible. Also you have to have some basic assumptions in life just like the process of building scientific knowledge relies on a few basic assumptions. http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/basic_assumptions If God did not have all the answers and solutions then there would be no reason for me to be here on this forum. God does not follow man's way. God does things His way and He follows His timing. Not ours. In Church we pray: Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done. He is not a genie in a bottle, we need to follow God and we need to learn His way.

God allows rebellion for a short period of time to test people. His desire is for us to freely Love Him. He can not force us to Love Him or to abide in His love. This is a choice that we have to make. In the end though all well conform to God and His ways or they will perish. This is the difference between temporal and eternal.

 

[46AND2]

Because this is what we read in the Bible.

Ok, but isn't that exactly what a malevolent god would say? In fact, doesn't it make more logical sense for an omnipotent god capable of lying to say that, rather than an omnipotent god which can't?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Ok, but isn't that exactly what a malevolent god would say? In fact, doesn't it make more logical sense for an omnipotent god capable of lying to say that, rather than an omnipotent god which can't?

This is not what God says, this is the nature of God.
As born again believers this will be our nature.
Liars will be thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[46AND2]

This is not what God says, this is the nature of God.
As born again believers this will be our nature.
Liars will be thrown into the lake of fire.

My point remains whether god specifically says he can't lie (vocally or written), or whether his word describes his nature as such.

 

[[serious]]

We don't need one.

Ok, same answer

 

[[serious]]

It most certainly does mean that the space, energy, matter and time of this universe did not exist. Which is what I have said. What evidence have you for any matter, energy, space or time other than what we have in our universe?

Same as the evidence for it not existing. But even if it were empty, what is the value of pi when you don't have a circle?

 

[[serious]]

I wrote the OP. So? Do we have to be fine tuned to design a factory or to design computer programs?

What thread do you think you're in?

 

[[serious]]

That doesn't work. God is not a part of the universe. The Big Bang certainly is.

Ok, same answer for the laws of nature

 

[[serious]]

Explain?

If we don't have a circle, does pi cease to exist?

 

[JaneC]

Provide some scientific documentation that the laws of nature existed prior to the universe existing.

It's childish statements like this that give Christianity a bad name and make pastors lose their faith.
How can a smart intelligent person live a decent life when they are constanly surrounded by foolish and gullible people?

 

[46AND2]

It's childish statements like this that give Christianity a bad name and make pastors lose their faith.
How can a smart intelligent person live a decent life when they are constanly surrounded by foolish and gullible people?

Why so hostile?

 

[JaneC]

Why so hostile?

Hostile? What was hostile about what I said?
As an American religious people do not phase you because they are everywhere, in the UK it's the exact opposite, religious people here are seen as being a little off the wall.
If each believer was the only believer they would be taken into care.

 

[46AND2]

Hostile? What was hostile about what I said?
As an American religious people do not phase you because they are everywhere, in the UK it's the exact opposite, religious people here are seen as being a little off the wall.
If each believer was the only believer they would be taken into care.

Really? You basically just called her childish, foolish, and gullible in one, two-line post. And it's pretty much a similar pattern in most of your posts.

Religious people are not crazy...at least, pretty sure I wasn't crazy when I was one. But when you are conditioned to be a believer from the time you are a toddler, it becomes extremely hard to consider it might not be true. And I get that you don't see that in the UK, but I know people who are extremely intelligent, quite coherent, and also devout christians.

 

[JaneC]

Really? You basically just called her childish, foolish, and gullible in one, two-line post. And it's pretty much a similar pattern in most of your posts.

That because I think she is being childish, foolish, and gullible, how else could I have put it? say she was thinking rationally and it was OK to think as she does?

Religious people are not crazy...at least, pretty sure I wasn't crazy when I was one.

When did I say she or any other believer was crazy? it's not crazy it's simply misguided.

But when you are conditioned to be a believer from the time you are a toddler, it becomes extremely hard to consider it might not be true. And I get that you don't see that in the UK, but I know people who are extremely intelligent, quite coherent, and also devout christians.

I know the reason why she is a Christian, what I don't understand is why she can not see for herself why she is a Christian, perhaps she can but she just denies it to herself.
If as you say you think there are people who are extremely intelligent and quite coherent and are also devout Christians perhaps you are not seeing them as they really are, ask yourself how they can be intelligent, coherent and Christians all at the same time? it's like saying he is a married bachelor, there is a part of their brain that is not functioning properly, a part where reason is not allowed to enter.
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle believed that fairies existed and also believed in a number of mediums.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...hur-Conan-Doyle-19-things-you-didnt-know.html

 

[46AND2]

When did I say she was crazy?

Not her specifically. This is what I was referring to:

religious people here are seen as being a little off the wall.
If each believer was the only believer they would be taken into care.

 

[[serious]]

Whether or not religious people seem crazy isn't really the topic of this thread though. This thread is about a comparison between the fine tuning required for our firm of life, and the greater fine tuning for a deity that would specifically want this form of life.

 

[46AND2]

Edit: [off topic]

 

[JaneC]

Not her specifically. This is what I was referring to:

"If each believer was the only believer they would be taken into care."

Taken into care because they had problems not because they were crazy, Schizophrenics are not crazy they are just damaged.
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