Fine tuning, a new approach

[Oncedeceived]

The voices in my head aren't physical.

Are your thoughts physical?

 

[AirPo]

Are your thoughts physical?

Should I spell it out?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Should I spell it out?

No, just answer the question.

 

[AirPo]

No, just answer the question.

En Oh.

 

[[serious]]

Irrelevant. The huge I probabilities relate to the universe as it existed a tiny fraction of a second after the Big Bang.

Right, which could have been dictated by the laws of nature.

 

[[serious]]

How does one explain something that is not physical when physical is all there is? Do you believe that there is something more than the physical world then?

Same way one explains god.

And feel free to peek at my faith icon

 

[Oncedeceived]

Same way one explains god.

And feel free to peek at my faith icon

I'm sorry but I had thought at one time you had said that there wasn't an icon that fit your stance and you just chose that. I don't remember the details though so I guess I don't know what your stance really is.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Right, which could have been dictated by the laws of nature.

That is not true. The laws of physics didn't exist until the universe itself existed.

 

[lesliedellow]

Right, which could have been dictated by the laws of nature.

The fundamental constants appera in the mathematical formulation of physical laws. Merely noting that fact does not explain the fact that they give every appearance of being finely tuned.

 

[[serious]]

If God could exist before our universe, then the same logic that allows that allows the natural laws to exist before our universe.

 

[[serious]]

The fundamental constants appera in the mathematical formulation of physical laws. Merely noting that fact does not explain the fact that they give every appearance of being finely tuned.

No more fine tuned than a divine creator must be.

 

[lesliedellow]

No more fine tuned than a divine creator must be.

Let's see your mathematical model of the Creator, and then we will talk about it.

 

[JaneC]

Are your thoughts physical?

Really?

 

[JaneC]

That is not true. The laws of physics didn't exist until the universe itself existed.

I love the crazy way you say things with certainty, it's as if you are convinced that you know what you are talking about.

 

[lesliedellow]

I love the crazy way you say things with certainty, it's as if you are convinced that you know what you are talking about.

What sense would Coulomb's Law have made before there was such a thing as an electric charge; or what sense would Einstein's Field Equation have made before there was mass or energy?

 

[bhsmte]

If God could exist before our universe, then the same logic that allows that allows the natural laws to exist before our universe.

No way. God is special and normal rules don't apply to God.

 

[bhsmte]

I love the crazy way you say things with certainty, it's as if you are convinced that you know what you are talking about.

More like, a powerful need to convince oneself they are correct.

 

[Picky Picky]

I think the answer to the OP is obvious: if there were a God, he would create a universe containing intelligent life. What would be the point of being God otherwise? Issuing commandments to yourself? Flooding your own back yard? Boring.

No, you would want some sentient beings you could pester and damage and torture and give nightmares to — and kill. And you would want to force them to worship you, on pain of worse afflictions, while you do it.

Obvious.

 

[Oncedeceived]

If God could exist before our universe, then the same logic that allows that allows the natural laws to exist before our universe.

Well I believe that the natural laws are governed by God and He originated them. Concerning a purely naturalistic scenario, the laws of nature can not exist without the matter, energy, space and time...what would they be laws of?

 

[Oncedeceived]

No more fine tuned than a divine creator must be.

Why would the Fine Tuner have to be Fine Tuned?