Oncedeceived
Senior Veteran
Provide some scientific documentation that the laws of nature existed prior to the universe existing.
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Provide some scientific documentation that the laws of nature existed prior to the universe existing.I love the crazy way you say things with certainty, it's as if you are convinced that you know what you are talking about.
Exactly.What sense would Coulomb's Law have made before there was such a thing as an electric charge; or what sense would Einstein's Field Equation have made before there was mass or energy?
Provide some scientific documentation that the laws of nature existed prior to the universe existing.
How do you know there wasn't a different state of nature as opposed to nothing? Nature, AS WE KNOW IT, didn't exist, but we have no idea, other than mere speculation, about anything beyond that. Maybe it was nothing, maybe it was another state of nature, maybe we are an offshoot of another universe, we just don't know.
What we know is that our universe didn't exist, no space, no energy, no matter, no time. That is what I claimed and what I've shown by scientists who are claiming the same thing.How do you know there wasn't a different state of nature as opposed to nothing? Nature, AS WE KNOW IT, didn't exist, but we have no idea, other than mere speculation, about anything beyond that. Maybe it was nothing, maybe it was another state of nature, maybe we are an offshoot of another universe, we just don't know.
What we know is that our universe didn't exist, no space, no energy, no matter, no time. That is what I claimed and what I've shown by scientists who are claiming the same thing.
Once we have a mathematical model of before the big bangLet's see your mathematical model of the Creator, and then we will talk about it.
Same thing that god would be the god ofWell I believe that the natural laws are governed by God and He originated them. Concerning a purely naturalistic scenario, the laws of nature can not exist without the matter, energy, space and time...what would they be laws of?
Read the op.Why would the Fine Tuner have to be Fine Tuned?
Our universe didnt exist before the big bang does NOT mean other natter, energy, etc didnt exist.What we know is that our universe didn't exist, no space, no energy, no matter, no time. That is what I claimed and what I've shown by scientists who are claiming the same thing.
Same evidence God existed before the big bang.Provide some scientific documentation that the laws of nature existed prior to the universe existing.
Once we have a mathematical model of before the big bang
Citation for the singularity having energy and Mass please.No, we don't know that. All we THEORIZE is a singularity which DID have energy and mass. You have shown the speculations of a couple of scientists who describe where they think the singularity came from, but it is not supported with data and is, at best, hypothesis, at this time.
It most certainly does mean that the space, energy, matter and time of this universe did not exist. Which is what I have said. What evidence have you for any matter, energy, space or time other than what we have in our universe?Our universe didnt exist before the big bang does NOT mean other natter, energy, etc didnt exist.
I wrote the OP. So? Do we have to be fine tuned to design a factory or to design computer programs?Read the op.
For god to finely tune the universe, he must have tight specificationa for what he wanted. Those narrow desires must be at least as specific as the tuning of the universe.
That doesn't work. God is not a part of the universe. The Big Bang certainly is.Same evidence God existed before the big bang.
Citation for the singularity having energy and Mass please.
Yes, God has to be consistent with Himself. For example: God can not lie. God's scales of Justice are perfectly balanced. That is why Jesus had to go to Calvary to die in our place. We can know that God is absolute Righteousness and that we will ultimately receive absolute and perfect Justice in our life. I question if the end result justifies the means and what we go through to get there. But God does not seem to question that.Whatever that something is that God is made of, it would seem to me that the something has to follow some set of rational and consistent rules, otherwise God would just disappear at random, or be unable to interact with anything at random times. That doesn't sound like the omnipotent type of deity that God is described as.
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