Fine tuning, a new approach

[lesliedellow]

Oh, ok:

He does if you want to be here discussing it.

Why would we want to discuss it? The fundamental constants are quantifiable - that is why they are called constants, and given specific values.

God is not quantifiable, and therefore there are no probabilities which can be calculated in connection with him.

You are spouting hot air.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Why would we want to discuss it? The fundamental constants are quantifiable - that is why they are called constants, and given specific values.

That's right, those Constants that don't change? They HAVE specific values that we've measured.

God is not quantifiable, and therefore there are no probabilities which can be calculated in connection with him.

Great! He doesn't need considering then.

You are spouting hot air.

If he is, then it's perfectly applicable hot air.

 

[lesliedellow]

That's right, those Constants that don't change? They HAVE specific values that we've measured.

So, an atheist who is trying to do a creationist's job for them. I suppose you realise that they are quite keen on having the laws of nature change over time, in order to explain away things like radiometric dating?

Great! He doesn't need considering then.

In what sense, exactly?

If he is, then it's perfectly applicable hot air.

Hot air is hot air.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Oh, ok:

He does if you want to be here discussing it.

God is a not a physical and is not of the natural world, rules that apply to the natural world are not required of God.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Hey, you're the one who posted two wildly different numbers to answer one of my questions. Not my fault you can't find a consistent answer to support your guesses.

You asked for calculations for how they determine the fine tuning, that is what I gave you.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

So, an atheist who is trying to do a creationist's job for them. I suppose you realise that they are quite keen on having the laws of nature change over time, in order to explain away things like radiometric dating?

Maybe I've missed something? These Constants don't change. Am I wrong?

In what sense, exactly?

If he's not quantifiable, then he has no effect on us. If he does, then he Is quantifiable, unless you believe something can come from nothing?

Hot air is hot air.

Sure, beneficial as it is.

 

[lesliedellow]

If he's not quantifiable, then he has no effect on us. If he does, then he Is quantifiable, unless you believe something can come from nothing?

I am not quantifiable, unless you are talking about my height or weight, but I am having an effect right this very second.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

I am not quantifiable, unless you are talking about my height or weight, but I am having an effect right this very second.

and you're quantifiable! I can reason with you, talk to you, things you say give me reason to think, etc.

 

[lesliedellow]

and you're quantifiable! I can reason with you, talk to you, things you say give me reason to think, etc.

How much does my mind weigh? How many joules are my thoughts? How strong is the gravitational field around my memory?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

How much does my mind weigh? How many joules are my thoughts? How strong is the gravitational field around my memory?

Is it your honest opinion that you and/or your effects aren't quantifiable? a measurement of a physical quantity isn't the only way to quantify something. Your beliefs guide your decisions your decisions have an effect on the people around you. That's quantifiable.

 

[lesliedellow]

Is it your honest opinion that you and/or your effects aren't quantifiable? a measurement of a physical quantity isn't the only way to quantify something.

It isn't? Apart from statistics I can't think of any application of mathematics which doesn't involve physical measurements.

Your beliefs guide your decisions your decisions have an effect on the people around you. That's quantifiable.

So? You still haven't told me how you are going to put a numerical value on them.

 

[Oncedeceived]

and you're quantifiable! I can reason with you, talk to you, things you say give me reason to think, etc.

Even if you could quantify him, that in no way equates to God.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

It isn't? Apart from statistics I can't think of any application of mathematics which doesn't involve physical measurements.

So? You still haven't told me how you are going to put a numerical value on them.

Oh, NOW I Understand! You're using the strictly mathematic definition of 'Quantifiable'... From www.dictionary.com :

Quantify - verb (used with object), quantified, quantifying.

1. to determine, indicate, or express the quantity of. <== You are Here
2. Logic. to make explicit the quantity of (a proposition). <== This
3. to give quantity to (something regarded as having only quality). <== and This​

and then ...

Quantity - noun, plural quantities.

1. a particular or indefinite amount of anything:

a small quantity of milk; the ocean's vast quantity of fish.​

2. an exact or specified amount or measure:

Mix the ingredients in the quantities called for.​

3. a considerable or great amount:

to extract ore in quantity.​

4. Mathematics. <=== You are Here

1. the property of magnitude involving comparability with other magnitudes.
2. something having magnitude, or size, extent, amount, or the like.
3. magnitude, size, volume, area, or length.

5. Music. the length or duration of a note.
6. Logic. the character of a proposition as singular, universal, particular, or mixed, according to the presence or absence of certain kinds of quantifiers. <=== Here is where I'm at!
7. that amount, degree, etc., in terms of which another is greater or lesser.
8. Prosody, Phonetics. the relative duration or length of a sound or a syllable, with respect to the time spent in pronouncing it; length.
9. Law. the nature of an estate as affected by its duration in time.​

 

[lesliedellow]

Even if you could quantify him, that in no way equates to God.

Aw, you have gone and burst my ego there.

 

[46AND2]

Lot of special pleading goin on in here....

 

[bhsmte]

Lot of special pleading goin on in here....

Without it, the story falls apart.

 

[lesliedellow]

Without it, the story falls apart.

Really? What falls apart?

 

[[serious]]

Why would we want to discuss it? The fundamental constants are quantifiable - that is why they are called constants, and given specific values.

God is not quantifiable, and therefore there are no probabilities which can be calculated in connection with him.

You are spouting hot air.

Well, the fine tuning of God is the subject of the OP.

Out of curiosity, what makes God unquantifiable? I mean, we can count the number of gods, right? That's a quantity.

 

[lesliedellow]

Well, the fine tuning of God is the subject of the OP.

Out of curiosity, what makes God unquantifiable? I mean, we can count the number of gods, right? That's a quantity.

What kind of measuring device did you have in mind? A pair of scales? A micrometer? A volt meter? A God meter perhaps?

 

[[serious]]

What kind of measuring device did you have in mind? A pair of scales? A micrometer? A volt meter? A God meter perhaps?

Beyond our current ability to measure is very different than unquantifiable. We quantified all manner of things in science before having the technological ability to measure it directly.