Finding common ground with catholics

[annafullofgrace]

I have two friends that are catholic, we just don't talk about doctrinal differences. We both love Jesus, we leave the rest out of our conversations.

 

[katerinah1947]

I am not a catholic and only have one close friend who is.
Actually we get on quite well now although some things i had difficulty with before as didnt understand certain things bout her church. But thats ok, we dont need to talk about that, and it rarely comes up.

But ehat do you do when a catholic starts talking things like the pope, or rosary, or adoring Mary, or statues and mass and expects you to know what they on about?
Or worse, insist that everything they do is biblical when you know in your heart they have good intentions but its just not Gods way. Just dont say anything? I dont want to get into arguments with them.

Then they start thinking you hate them and their church and brand you heretic. But maybe you just pointing out some things that you find a bit quetionable, but then they dont like you asking so many questions. I dont know. im starting to think that just gets me protesting, and then they label me a protestant. But im not protesting as such, just defending the faith once delivered to the saints, except from their POV its everyone else who isnt catholic that is wrong and doesnt get it.

Meh!
Will i get in trouble from catholics for expressing my view and what the bible says? I seem to always! But i didnt bring up the topic?!

Hi,
I think that you should realize your Bible tells you how to handle argumentative people. It is in Proverbs.
Asside from that most people in all religions don't even know their own religion, they merely are telling you what they think is true.
I work with Catholics from time to time, using this method. I give them what I personally know, and I am a Catholic.
Also remember Mark 9:38-42 tells all of to not be against those that are for us, even if they don't have things quite correct. And, of all things the one who knows the most, is the one God tells us should be the one to back off. Read it and see.
Yes I am Catholic. I am also Baptist. I am also Protestant. Whatever God says is right, I do. Most of that comes from the Bible, but is checked many ways. Catholics are not Bible people. They are not. Yet, I have seen God in their church. I have. Also I have seen God in that church in places that would amaze others. I have personally seen their Holy Water work. I have personally engaged Jesus in a picture of Him on my wall. I have personally seen Mary help, who is no God. I have personally seen Mary and Jesus work together.
So, you do not get the wrong impression. I see God working in The Spirit in Protestant churches, with enough items to rival and also scare any Catholic.
Your friend if he is contentious, is to be dropped by you. It is in Proverbs. I can look it up for you. God is telling you that, through that book. He is also supposed to drop you, if you are contentious.
To God, grapes are women of God for real and not merely spouting or pretending or professing to be of God, in a passage. Figs are men of God, like those of women of God, true believers and not just saying they are.
In that passage God says that you do not find grapes on thorn bushes, meaning that contact with them causes you pain. For men it is the same, figs are not found on briars, thus they are not hard to be around either.
The passage is Matthew 7:16, if I recall correctly,. I do remember though Matthew 7:15, and that is what women who hurt are like, and similarly men who are contentious and hurt.
Now, you have two things, Proverbs and Matthew 7:15-16 to help you decide how to handle contentious ones.
LOVE,
...Katie., .... .

 

[Goodbook]

Its ok.
I burned all the prickly rose thorns in my garden and now know not to hang around them.


As for not being bible people, well, i dont want to push the bible on them if they are not willing, but just encourage them to read it more, if i do fall into conversation i suppose. Which is a rare...but there you go.

Of course we dont all have it correct all the time but the more you read the bible i think the more you learn and the more your faith is built up...sometimes churches and groups can be such a distraction, whether they rituals, programs, traditions or popular preachers...and then you kinda wonder hey...is this practise christian or is it just religion, and if so, does it matter to God? What does he say in his Word?

And then you go from there...

 

[com7fy8]

Hi, Good Book I have written with people on the Net, who claim to be Roman Catholics, and ones could be very nasty. But also I have personally shared with Catholics who say we all serve the same God. So, not all are alike.

One said, I think I remember, that she does not know what her Roman Catholic church teaches, but she goes there because she likes the music!!

One person on Net had been calling someone things like trash of the devil. So, I phoned a convent, I think, and talked with a nun and asked about that. She said something like, "I have better things to be concerned about; I pray for all people."

But nasty people can get attention to whatever is their group, and because they make such a racket, it can seem like they represent that group.

I was a Roman Catholic, using it to cover for my mess in myself. Then I asked Jesus to save me and I discovered how I was my own real main problem; I did not need to be attacking the Roman Catholic Church; I need how God corrects me so I can find out how to love.

 

[Goodbook]

hm interesting. No, I don't lump all rccs the same obviously many are saved and I know many many that have come out of it, once they were saved.

with this one catholic friend, I was worried a little when she started hanging out with some new friends she met at uni and asked me to come along.It turned out they were moonies! From the unification church! Wanting to recruit us!
I had to tell her I didn't think it was a good idea!

I don't know..I do my best, encourage her to read her bible. Of course she grows up in it and all her family is so I don't hold that against her. But she is not hardcore militant defender like some ppl I had the misfortune to meet online.

I just felt a bit strange when at her house I saw little shrines to mary and joseph and jesus statues in her parents bedroom. I didn't say anything though, it was not my place.
One of my neighbours, cos his dad was irish catholic, he kinda had that religiousity passed down to him, and he showed me his little cupboard of statues and I was kinda weirded out. I didn't say anything either...but I do kinda hint at times if he wants to know God, cos it's like he doesn't really know Him, that he can read the Bible. He doesn't go to church that I know of cos he's deaf. His mum is kinda atheist.

He tried to give me a rosary when he found out I was a christian and going to church but I said no. I think when some are raised in it and that's all they know, maybe they think every church is like the catholic church.

 

[com7fy8]

One accusation is that Roman Catholic statues are "idols" and that Catholics "pray" to Mary. But ones claim that "officially" the statues are not worshiped but are for helping people to think about whoever the statue represents, so the devoted person can become like the example of whoever is represented by the statue. And ones say that "officially" Catholics are not supposed to be worship and pray to Mary, but but they are asking her to make intercession for them.

But . . . I consider . . . idolatry is not only worshiping someone or something which is not God. Idolatry can be how we give too much attention to a person or thing other than God. So, TV can be an idol. A sport can be an idol. And ones can make Mary an idol, by giving too much attention to her instead of first being attentive to how our Father rules us in His peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

And Paul clearly commands us Christians to pray "for all the saints", in Ephesians 6:18. So, if I spend all or a lot of my time trying to get Mary to pray for me, instead of praying "for all the saints" like we are commanded to do, I can be making Mary a sort of prayer idol, by giving my attention to seeking her prayer instead of obeying how God wants us to pray "for all the saints".

"But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 20-21)

So, we ourselves are commanded to pray "in the Holy Spirit"; I would say this means to pray in submission to how the Holy Spirit has us praying. So, this prayer is very effective, right through us, since we are praying how the Holy Spirit Himself has us praying. So, our attention needs to be to this, and not only to seeking someone else to pray, or we could be making someone else an idol, instead of trusting how God in us can have us praying.

 

[seashale76]

I'm not going to get into it here regarding prayers to saints, however, read my post 14: http://www.christianforums.com/t7838509-2/#post66203042

FTR, all of my extended family is Catholic. I've never seen statues in their homes, unless you count my aunt's Precious Moments collection. Even their parish doesn't have statues these days. They don't have icons either. I have an icon corner though.

 

[Dave-W]

Hi, Good Book I have written with people on the Net, who claim to be Roman Catholics, and ones could be very nasty. But also I have personally shared with Catholics who say we all serve the same God. So, not all are alike.

One said, I think I remember, that she does not know what her Roman Catholic church teaches, but she goes there because she likes the music!!

One person on Net had been calling someone things like trash of the devil. So, I phoned a convent, I think, and talked with a nun and asked about that. She said something like, "I have better things to be concerned about; I pray for all people."

All catholics are not alike? Really?

I grew up in a very small town. My entire HS graduating class was 157 people. 5 of us were named David. 2 of the Davids went to the same tiny catholic church and are now protestant pastors. One was and still is a very close friend. I served under the other for several years as a worship leader.

I remember one time the 3 of us were together for some dinner or something and those 2 Davids started relating on their shared Catholic heritage. You would think they came from opposite sides of the globe. For my close friend, it was a wonderful and faith filled experience. For the other, it turned him away from God for several years.

So IMO it is a mixed bag - it is what you make out of it - like much of the rest of life.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I am not a catholic and only have one close friend who is.

Actually we get on quite well now although some things i had difficulty with before as didn't understand certain things bout her church. But that's ok, we don't need to talk about that, and it rarely comes up.

But what do you do when a catholic starts talking things like the pope, or rosary, or adoring Mary, or statues and mass and expects you to know what they on about?

Or worse, insist that everything they do is biblical when you know in your heart they have good intentions but its just not Gods way. Just don't say anything? I don't want to get into arguments with them.

Then they start thinking you hate them and their church and brand you heretic. But maybe you just pointing out some things that you find a bit questionable, but then they don't like you asking so many questions. I don't know. I'm starting to think that just gets me protesting, and then they label me a protestant. But I'm not protesting as such, just defending the faith once delivered to the saints, except from their POV its everyone else who isn't catholic that is wrong and doeskin get it.

Meh!

Will I get in trouble from catholics for expressing my view and what the bible says? I seem to always! But i didn't bring up the topic?!

If you want to know what Catholic Christians believe why not read a Catholic Catechism. Some are quite short. Perhaps you can get a copy of one called At Home With God's People. It looks like this:

It is published in Australia. It contains the following chapters and is 212 pages long.

1. Introduction
2. In Search of God
3. Prayer
4. The Bible: The Word of God
5. The Bible and the Church
6. The God of Revelation
7. The Birth of the Church
8. The Church: God's People
9. Peter and the Church
10. Mary, Mother of the Church
11. The Life of Faith
12. The Sacraments of the Church
13. The Sacraments of Initiation: Baptism and Confirmation
14. The Sacraments of Initiation: Eucharist
15. The Structure of the Mass
16. Sin and Forgiveness
17. Anointing of the Sick
18. Marriage
19. Priesthood
20. Ministry and Mission
21. The Moral Law
22. Law and Freedom
23. Authority and Wisdom
24. Social Justice
25. Care of the Planet
26. The Last Things

God be with you as you read and learn what your friend's Church teaches.

 

[Goodbook]

I did read one called the catholic handbook which had excerpts from the catechism a few yesrs ago.
Im not reading the whole thing cos the catechism book is so fat.
But it gave me some background on what the church believes.

I remember once sending away for information about the church, just out of curiosity. I receieved some booklets in the mail. My dad saw them and he didnt like them..i threw them away. Its ok, I am not curious about it anymore...I have the bible, so I dont need anything else.

I have asked my friend a few questions, and she tried to explain it, but we dont really talk about it, she has said its like a bureaucracy. I think it would be hard to be critical of it if its like your whole life been handed down to you.

As for idols, yes other things can be idols too, so to be in judgment of this those of us who dont have statues icons of say, movie stars and sports stars etc adorning our walls etc cant be hypocrites about that.

 

[Goodbook]

The direct approach is the best approach when it comes to communicating with God. And thats by his ONLY begotteon son, Jesus, not mary or anybody else.

 

[Goodbook]

The disturbing thing about the catechism is, that even if you leave, or get excommunicated or something, you still labeled a 'lapsed catholic'. Also if any non catholic challenges your churches beliefs, you meant to defend it. It really seems like a stronghold, i suppose when it works its good, but when its corrupt, its really really bad.

Depending on who is pope at the time.
But Jesus is the head of the church, not the pope, or pastor or reverend.

Anyway sorry to go on about this. I will just not get into any arguments. As said before, they have good intentions.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I did read one called the catholic handbook which had excerpts from the catechism a few years ago.

I'm not reading the whole thing cos the catechism book is so fat.

But it gave me some background on what the church believes.

I remember once sending away for information about the church, just out of curiosity. I received some booklets in the mail. My dad saw them and he didn't like them..i threw them away. Its ok, I am not curious about it any more...I have the bible, so I don't need anything else.

I have asked my friend a few questions, and she tried to explain it, but we don't really talk about it, she has said its like a bureaucracy. I think it would be hard to be critical of it if its like your whole life been handed down to you.

As for idols, yes other things can be idols too, so to be in judgment of this those of us who don't have statues icons of say, movie stars and sports stars etc adorning our walls etc cant be hypocrites about that.

212 pages doesn't seem "fat" to me. But if you still live in your parent's home and are under their rules then maybe At Home With God's people would break the rules and I cannot advocate that. Holy scripture tells the faithful to honour their parents (father and mother).

 

[Goodbook]

Uh.
They were religious booklets. Dad doesnt mind me going to church and reading the bible but he reacted strongly to the catholic booklets for some reason.
I didnt mean that one you posted i meant the catechism. In the public library the one i saw was pretty fat. 803 pages.

 

[Goodbook]

Thanks for posting it anyway, if need to read it, its there.
I suppose it is mixed bag cos there are different expressions of catholicism in different countries. Cos my friend is from phillipines...just about everyone is raised catholic. Likewise many ppl from ireland.
In my community, the catholic schools mostly have indian students. I suppose cos of mother teresas influence.

 

[seashale76]

Thanks for posting it anyway, if need to read it, its there.
I suppose it is mixed bag cos there are different expressions of catholicism in different countries. Cos my friend is from phillipines...just about everyone is raised catholic. Likewise many ppl from ireland.
In my community, the catholic schools mostly have indian students. I suppose cos of mother teresas influence.

The area where I live has a lot of people descended from German immigrants- so there are a lot of German Catholic types in my part of the US.

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi

It looks like this posting is going to where it shoud go, and that is that people are different. I am extremely Catholic and yet at times, I have had to pull Catholics aside and counsel them.

I have pulled priests aside to counsel, some to befriend, some to encourage. I have done the same thing with ministers in the Protestan faith. I have done the same thing with my genetic and step family members. Also I have done the same thing with all people from time to time.

Really, I can't separate the diffferences either religiously. It does seem though that the more a person has given up their free will to God and to the world, the more God uses and gets close to that person. What I suspect though is that each of these is a different calling from God. And what I hope I mean by that, is this, God makes people what they are, and then He useses them to their highest and best purposes, with one goal. That goal is to cause people to always search for and acknowledge God.

Yet, I still struggle with Absolute Truth and wonder why everyone does not come up with just one answer. I think there is, but most of us do not know what that answer is, instead we get upset over what we think that answer is. And that is because many who teach about God, don't really know who or what God is.

For an example. I think I know God well through experimentation and His very willing promptings for me to do so. If I am correct, than how can any Religion exist outside of a combination of Protestant and Catholic. (neither one is good enough separately to be close to absolute. Together, they are amazinly perfect.) Yet, Islam exists. Hindu exists. Gnosticism exists. Mormonism exists. Jehovah's Witnesses exists and Atheism exists.

If there is only one answer, as I see it, then why are there so many mistakes? Is it because Salt, the term God uses really is bad when there is too much of it? Didn't God say that. If that means what I think it means, then too much knowledge of God in everyone is bad. I can think of an example in my life to highlight that. I just briefly was asked a question by The Holy Spirit one day, personally. Well that pretty much ended my non religious life. From then on, it was God this and God that. I barely was able to go to college and get employed. Yes, I was stunningly good at my careers, but that was really God doing all the work and giving me all the answers as I was really picked by God for something else, in His world to do.
When I saw The Essence of God, then had Jesus show me a whole.....bunch of things and then also met Mary as she looked when she was 49, well that pretty much ended my Masters and Ph.D. types of work. I was totally in to God, yet someone has to do all the work in this world outside of God.

Maybe it is not about Catholics being mean or nice. Maybe it is not about Protestants being mean or nice. Maybe the total picture is about people and their progress or jobs they are doing with God.

LOVE,
...Katie., .... .

 

[Goodbook]

it is the relationship with God that counts, not the outward expression of religion.
I'm just saying I notice the difference cos obviously I am not, wasn't raised that way, and very difficult to get my head around or understand it, especially when I read the Bible and consult God's word, as certain practises conflict with it so I can't in good conscience support that.

I do know that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life...so when you say absolute truth, well, Jesus is the truth. There is no wavering in my mind about that.

One needs discernment though. So I was bit surprised that my friend got swayed by the moonies. But I suppose that can happen to anyone, although I think if you know your Bible and keep abiding in His Word then you less likely to be confused, because God is not the author of confusion.

If she'd gone off with them...I wouldn't have got her back. It would be even worse than her going to be a nun.

 

[katerinah1947]

it is the relationship with God that counts, not the outward expression of religion.
I'm just saying I notice the difference cos obviously I am not, wasn't raised that way, and very difficult to get my head around or understand it, especially when I read the Bible and consult God's word, as certain practises conflict with it so I can't in good conscience support that.

I do know that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life...so when you say absolute truth, well, Jesus is the truth. There is no wavering in my mind about that.

One needs discernment though. So I was bit surprised that my friend got swayed by the moonies. But I suppose that can happen to anyone, although I think if you know your Bible and keep abiding in His Word then you less likely to be confused, because God is not the author of confusion.

If she'd gone off with them...I wouldn't have got her back. It would be even worse than her going to be a nun.

Hi,
If I remember this correctly the Moonies just use a subtle form of BrainWashing. And to do that, they target a very certain audience. You have said that anyone can fall for that sort of thing. And yes I have been told that BrainWashing is a possible item, despite anyone's native intelligence. This means if you are bright or not so bright, it doesn't make a difference. Either is susceptible.
Yes, The Bible totally helps one not be taken in. Proverbs is especially good, and actually Proverbs says that about itself.
LOVE,
...Katie., .... .

 

[questftbest]

I stumbled upon this post. Haven't been here in ages. I am Catholic. I don't take offense to your post at all. We also question passages you with passages like John 6 where other Christians say the bread and wine are just a symbol but Jesus didn't. Also, the Bible says "all generations shall called me blessed"...a bold statement but I don't think many Christians say Mary is blessed unless you are Catholic or Orthodox. Anyhow, just wanted to point out that the misunderstanding works both ways .