Finding common ground with catholics

[seashale76]

how so, friend? please expound...

The Church began before Constantine came along and it is documented. The man didn't even become a Christian until he was on his deathbed anyway. Historians don't dispute the fact that everything began before the Council of Nicea in 325. Catholic simply means 'universal' and this word was used in reference to the Church pre-Constantine.

If you're interested:

The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine, 5 vols. (1973–1990). Chicago: University of Chicago Press- Jaroslav Pelikan
Volume 1: The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition 100–600 (1973) ISBN 0-226-65371-4
Volume 2: The Spirit of Eastern Christendom 600–1700 (1974) ISBN 0-226-65373-0
Volume 3: The Growth of Medieval Theology 600–1300 (1978) ISBN 0-226-65375-7
Volume 4: Reformation of Church and Dogma 1300–1700 (1984) ISBN 0-226-65377-3
Volume 5: Christian Doctrine and Modern Culture since 1700 (1990) ISBN 0-226-65380-3

 

[suzeequeue]

sister, i will surely have a look at what you have posted; though i have thoroughly researched this subject in the past, perhaps there is something new in your links.

there is so much to be said about the subject of RCC and its origins, history, practices, the Bible, etc., i suppose we could fill volumes and not make a dent, but i do not come here to argue. i spend 90% of my time here at CF on the prayer forum and that's where i should stay. keeps me outta trouble .

thank you for posting your comments, and please forgive me if i offended you, as that certainly was not my intention. God's blessings on you, seashale.

 

[strwy]

Goodbook,

Pray for your friend and focus on her good qualities and when she sees Jesus' love in you she might focus more on JESUS as opposed to rules which are not in HIS Word .

God Bless YOU ,Strwy

 

[Goodbook]

Ok this is not about my friend, she's ok now, it is more someone on a forum who is catholic that seems to befriend me, but always insisting first they are catholic, and that kind of grates, cos I don't insist I'm baptist or presy or whatever.

I shall just refrain from responding whenever they mentions stuff about the rosary, blessed virgin mary, mass, praying to passed on saints or asking them to intercede, when you can just ask a friend, and other things. I guess its kinda like my christadelphian colleague who would always want to talk about the millennium and quote tons of bible verses at me when I hardly know what he is on about.

It is too much information overload, and I don't need to know all that. Just follow Jesus.
I hope I don't come across that way to other ppl, spouting whatever the church says. I think maybe when ppl find out that I'm a christian they think I will agree with every church doctrine. Even if I don't belong to their church and never been there.

I didn't grow up with any established church so I just find it a bit weird all this extra stuff. Not everyone is like this, just certain ppl, and catholicism is very different from anything I've learned from the Bible. I think if they start saying more stuff and I respond they think I'm then interested but I'm not really, just be polite and say, no that's not where God is leading me.

 

[Goodbook]

My common ground with my friend is that we both single and female and worked together. And we like food and going out. And literature.

Otherwise we quite different, but we can talk about following Jesus, although she has a different take, but I just respect that she grew up with it, as part of her culture.

She doesn't have to explain to me everything when she hardly knows herself, but I guess some ppl want to give me an edumacation on the finer points of their church I suppose. I'm not going to join or anything, but just find that slightly annoying.

When tried to make sense of it all, looking in the Bible, got into big argument once for just asking a question, which is why, I don't bring up any topic anymore and don't go to catholic forums.

 

[znr]

This is what it boils down to.

This topic always gets a chuckle out of me. Its like a high schooler rolling their eyes at how naive their 45 year old parent is who just doesn't get it.

The Catholic Church is the mature version of whatever church you go to. After two thousand years lots of history and rules make it what it has become. Spirituality is there, but its a well ordered kind. Jesus started the Catholic Church with the apostle Peter. Since then its had highs and lows and its still around.

My advice is simply this:

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
--HERBERT SPENCER

 

[Goodbook]

Yep just want to add, I do pray for my friends and also any new ones.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I just avoid the issues so there are no arguments. They can believe how they want and I can believe how I want.

One thing I will say is whenever something happens in the news with the catholic church and people hate me for it, I reply don't compare my beliefs with theirs. I realize the word catholic is something universal. But in todays world I see it as a denomination. Just as what I believe has its own denomination. Which ironically is non-denominational.

BTW just so people don't get offended I am not saying "Don't compare" in a bad way. Just saying it as in "We believe in different things". To me throwing everyone in as the same thing is not good. It would be like saying milk is the same as steak just because its from the same animal.

Though I do realize all these fractures and denominations in the christian world has caused rifts and fights sadly. But we really should try not to do that because it only makes the devil enjoy watching us argue.

 

[Goodbook]

I think when most ppl talk about catholicism they mean rcc. Roman catholic, as opposed to other kind of meaning, which just means universal.

Rcc church means vatican and pope and all that.

I dont identify with vatican etc. I know one of the creeds says something about catholic church and heard some ppl repeat this in a presy church once, and when asked about it they said it just meant the universal church. But then thats confusing too because the unification church and the unitarian universalists are something else again.

So...to avoid all this confusion I dont identify as protestant I just say Im born again christian. I dont like to get into arguments over denoms and please dont do this is my thread.

 

[Goodbook]

Besides doesnt protestant mean to protest..to argue?
It just seems like a word catholics use to describe non catholics. Its not in the bible.
But since the things they do dont affect me, it just seems a bit weird they label everyone else this.

Anyway...dont worry, I will just follow Jesus and ignore all the labels. They dont help, and I think hinder ppl, so will pray for anyone who thinks their church better than any others just cos its older. Meh. Jesus builds his church, not man.

 

[Sketcher]

Those folks sound like hotheads, and people like that can be found in many different denominations. Usually, it's recent converts who think they at last have found the answer to everything by subscribing to what has been told them by leaders who claim to be infallible or that their church is the only real church. Most Roman Catholics do not behave this way, however.

But saying that doesn't help you much, since your acquaintances are the belligerent type.

Yeah.

Best to know what you believe and why, and learn their counter-arguments, so you can counter those (what you might do is read their catechism, and see where you agree and where you disagree). Don't be the aggressor to a belligerent type. Be a rock that they can't move. I don't think there's anything they hate more than that. Be loving as you do this. That should soften it for them, while bringing you closer to the heart of Christ, and anyone should be able to see it.

 

[strwy]

Once , a friend (so-called) tried to get me into an argument but I chose not to please the devil by arguing and insult our FATHER.

Remember how Jesus barely responded when he was being questioned by the Pharisees at a meeting at night (right after they arrested OUR innocent LORD) .

 

[Albion]

Besides doesnt protestant mean to protest..to argue?

Yes, but not to protest Catholic teachings or the Roman Catholic Church. The term comes from the protest of the Lutherans in Germany against a political decision made in the late 1520s concerning recognition of their churches by the government--a decision that hardly anyone remembers anymore.

It just seems like a word catholics use to describe non catholics.

No, that's not the case.

Its not in the bible.

Well, neither are the legal names of almost all Christian denominations.

it just seems a bit weird they label everyone else this.

The term they prefer is "non-Catholic," although there are those who, when using "Protestant" either consciously or unconsciously use it to mean "opposition to Catholicism" even thought that is not the real meaning of the word.

 

[Goodbook]

Thats cool.
I think it applies to other things, like when someone starts talking bout the church being raped. Or raptured, same difference. Jesus is no rapist. I'm like...okaaay. You believe that? Next.

They just put you through tribulation without even realising it.

 

[Goodbook]

One time, my cathoilic friend, despondent about being single, told me she was seriously thinking of becoming a nun.
Im like woah..I didnt know what to say to that.
I was concerned though. So i borrowed a book from the library cant remember what it was called now..oh no yes it was the book that the movie The Nuns Story was based on, written by sister Luke and gave for her to read.
She didnt end up becoming a nun.

There is too many stories about the horrors of instituionalised organized religion for me to ever contemplate going there. I remember reading a recent one by an ex nun who was a sister of charity for mother teresa. It was really sad, and thought, really they believed all this???

 

[seashale76]

I don't know how monasticism works in the Catholic Church, but in the Orthodox Church, there are no orders- there is only one habit. One has to live as a novice for a time before actually being tonsured a monk or nun.

Novices are not officially monastics as it is a time to see if they can live that life. Then there are three stages after being a novice: 1) The rassaphore/robe-bearer stage where they are tonsured but no formal vows of commitment are made; 2) The stravaphore/cross-bearer/little schema stage where they are tonsured and formal vows are made, and the monastic is given more responsibilities ; 3) The Great Schema where they reaffirm their vows and are tonsured.

Each stage is not to be taken lightly and some people decide to stay and remain non-tonsured novices their entire lives, while others stay in the rassaphore or stravaphore stage. Becoming a Schemamonk comes after many years, generally.

There is nothing wrong with being a monastic- but once you've made your vows there is no going back. In Orthodoxy they want to make sure people can hack it before committing to that life.

 

[Goodbook]

well..we shouldn't need to take vows, cos if you take a vow, you have to honor it, as the Bible says.

seashale, I don't know much about all the traditions of the orthodox and lots of those words are new to me - but I don't have any particular probs with orthodox beliefs that I can think of - although you are the only one I know of who kind of responds. I don't lump orthodox with RCC's as they are clearly different.

 

[Goodbook]

if my friend became a nun, it is not likely I would ever see much of her again.
Besides, she enjoys her freedom and independence. What I know of nun life is very regimented, and besides, living with all those women? I don't know, I don't think she could handle it, as they can be catty even in convents.

some ppl tell me they went to catholic school and taught by nuns, and one said she suspected they were lesbians, cos of how strict and harsh they were over certain things but overly interested in other things like what they wore to gym.

Idk it is a foreign concept to me, cloistering yourself away like that. Also I researched a bit about Jesuits and I read some shocking things about that their spiritual practices too. But I won't say about it here, don't want to get into any arguments.

 

[seashale76]

I went to a Catholic university for my master's degree. I apparently had a nun for a professor and didn't even realize it until someone mentioned it in passing. I also used to go to church back when I was pentecostal with a former Catholic nun. She left and got married and had kids. She never talked about her time as a nun though.

 

[Goodbook]

I dont' really know any.
catholic schools are separate from the rest. although there are also presbyterian private schools and anglican ones and even sda ones. I went to public school, but there were some christians there who formed fellowship groups. it didn't matter what denom you were - I didn't even know the differences back then.

many of my friends at high school were christians. I didn't know any catholics at all growing up, never had any catholic friends..they just didn't hang around. I think I did have one teacher who was catholic in intermediate (middle school) but I had no idea she was till found later, though, she did wear a cross round her neck. She later changed schools to teach in the catholic high school.