Final stumpers for Creationists

TScott · May 13, 2002

Rufus Atticus

If you don't see it, you don't see it. The implications are there for anyone who is being reasonable.

The facts are this: According to a Sigma xi poll among Scientific phDs, 46% of them go to religious services. Now how deep their beliefs really go, I guess only they know, but the fact remains, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you, that a large percentage of scientists believe in a god.

mac_philo · May 13, 2002

If you've presented that statistic accurately, it is meaningless. I can truthfully answer that question 'yes.' Am I the type of evidence for your position that you have in mind?

If you think going to religious services = believing in god, you need to talk to more scientists and more athiests. This may come as a shock to you, but sometimes an infidel in a christian society is compelled (gasp!) to attend religious services.

Starscream · May 13, 2002

Hello TScott:

The facts are this: According to a Sigma xi poll among Scientific phDs, 46% of them go to religious services. Now how deep their beliefs really go, I guess only they know, but the fact remains, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you, that a large percentage of scientists believe in a god.

Please give us a link to your source.

Also, I wouldn't be too quick to align church attendence with belief in God. Every single atheist I know has attended church regularily at some point in his/her life, even as an atheist.

I myself still go to Church from time to time.

rynox · May 13, 2002

I don't know about you guys, but The Word of God has been around for thousands of years, unchanged, not disproved, still infuriating people. Now tell me why if it is just an invalid document, does it meet such animosity? That is my first reason for believing: sci-fi-entologists like the one who started this thread.

Secondly, the theory of evolution makes me sick. It would take years for apes to supposedly evolve into humans, meaning there would be in-between creatures leaving bones and fossils all around when they kick the bucket. There are no fossils, no missing links...Soooo, our wonderful sci-fi-entists come up with a completely objective [sarcasm] theory of spontaneous evolution.

I wasn't always a Christian, obviously. In fact, I used to be a die-hard Atheist, however, it was this sort of thinking that made me wonder about my beliefs. So I researched some for myself. I considered many aspects of nature, myself, etc. I came to the conclusion that, and Voltaire said it best , how crazy would you be to think that there is not an intelligent being behind the creation of our universe! Our very existence could not have been so without God.

I urge my fellow brothers and sisters to not doubt The Word of God. It is truth and life... therefore it is hated by some. I am truely afraid for the souls of those who are lukewarm.

~rynðx

Our God is an awesome God!

God Fixation · May 13, 2002

PTL Rynox!

mac_philo · May 13, 2002

'Years?'

Good Lord, if you don't know the first thing about evolution, stop preaching.

Your grasp of the theory seems to be exhausted by your ability to correctly spell 'evolution.'

Starscream · May 13, 2002

Hello, rynox, here's a wall-banger for you:

Compare these two quotes from your post

I don't know about you guys, but The Word of God has been around for thousands of years, unchanged, not disproved, still infuriating people. Now tell me why if it is just an invalid document, does it meet such animosity?
.
.
.
Secondly, the theory of evolution makes me sick.

If evolution is such an invalid theory then why does it meet such animosity? That is my first reason for believing: myth-entologists like the one who wrote the post I quote from.

I always thought that Rhinox made a pretty crappy Transformer, btw. Give me Ironhide anyday, now there's a noble Autobot!

God Fixation · May 13, 2002

Because it is what many people want to hear. They don't want a God that tells them what to do, or what not to do. They want to act like animals and evoloution excuses it.

Starscream · May 13, 2002

Because it is what many people want to hear.

I disagree. I'd love to hear if a joyful afterlife with all my loved ones was really possible.

They don't want a God that tells them what to do, or what not to do. They want to act like animals and evoloution excuses it.

Even as an atheist, I doubt my life is any more 'sinful' then your average Christian. I might swear a bit more, but that's it.

God Fixation · May 13, 2002

You may be an exception but it does not change what I have seen; people rebeling against any and all authority and that being their single cause for aitheism and beliving in evoloution, because they think it is 'no fun' to live under the Lordship of their Creator.

Starscream · May 13, 2002

You may be an exception but it does not change what I have seen; people rebeling against any and all authority and that being their single cause for aitheism and beliving in evoloution, because they think it is 'no fun' to live under the Lordship of their Creator.

I think it's possible that you are simply over-generalizing here.

I also don't understand why you equate evolution with atheism. I know a great number of Christians and the vast majority of have no problems with evolution.

I really think that creationists who so detest evolution are the very vocal minority here, even within Christianity.

God Fixation · May 13, 2002

Originally posted by Starscream

I also don't understand why you equate evolution with atheism.

I am only a witness to what I've seen. Not making the news but delivering it. I don't know why they are that way but I do have some assumtions and we all know where that leads us.

TScott · May 13, 2002

Starscream,

I didn't read about the xi poll on the net you could probably write them and ask them for information on it. It was taken in the early nineties when I read about it, I believe in Scientific American. While looking for the article in their archives I did run across this, which you amy find interesting:

http://www.sciam.com/1998/0898issue/0898scicit3.html

From the article:

...as Albert Einstein once put it, "science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind."

jon1101 · May 13, 2002

IF you are a christian who believes in evolution then why in Genesis 1:31a ("God saw all that he made, and it was very good") does God call the earth very good? Adam and Eve would be standing on top of billions of years of dead animals and death and disease and misfits would have been part of Gods plan to bring Man into the world.

Coming off of years as a creationist I am, at this point, undecided on the issue. Basically, I have yet to see the creationists support their science with science and am thus skeptical of creationism.

I've heard people - Ken Ham for example - say that we should not take science and fit it into the Bible, that we take the Bible first and science second. The trouble with this approach, the approach saying that the Bible should not be watered down with science, is that we would still belief in a flat earthed, geocentricist model without science. Afterall, that is what the Bible says when taken literally.

The Bible is reinterpretted when it contradicts observable reality. Period.

-jon

seebs · May 13, 2002

Originally posted by Cancer To Iniquity

I've heard people - Ken Ham for example - say that we should not take science and fit it into the Bible, that we take the Bible first and science second. The trouble with this approach, the approach saying that the Bible should not be watered down with science, is that we would still belief in a flat earthed, geocentricist model without science. Afterall, that is what the Bible says when taken literally.

It also makes about as much sense to use the Bible to guide science, as it does to use science to understand God.

I don't see creationist science as making any more sense than asking, when God created light, what the equal and opposite reaction was. It's missing the point; using the wrong tool for the job.

papakapp · May 13, 2002

cancer to inequity:

I do not know how this myth about the bible saying the earth is flat got started. Isa.40:22 seems to say quite the opposite. Maybe the whole flat earth thing was just religious zealots taking the bible out of context, not the bible itself being in error.

Originally posted by mac-philo
Hi papakapp,

You seem to have some misconceptions about evolution. Evolution does not procede from misfits to humans, or from imperfection to perfection. So that's a rather bad analogy. Evolution does not have a teleology--it is not goal oriented. If a species goes extinct because of environmental changes, that doesn't mean it was a 'misfit.' It may have been an ingenious, efficient species.

As for death--there is no life without death. I don't see how that's relevant.

Click to expand...

It was my understanding that beneficial mutations are the raw material for evolution. It was also my understanding that harmful mutations outnumber beneficial mutations. Therefore it was my conclusion that if God had intended us to get where we are by evolution, He also would have intended all the 3 legged frogs and blind cats and whatever other harmful mutations that come along with the beneficial ones.
I don't see any verse in the bible, taken literally or figuratively that could imply that that was the way God intended it.

(part 2)
According to the Genesis account; Death was not an occurance at the time of creation, only after man sinned was their death. Therefore, evolution could not have been in Gods plan as evolution requires death before man sinned.

God Fixation · May 13, 2002

Wow, I never thought of it like that before...

jon1101 · May 13, 2002

I do not know how this myth about the bible saying the earth is flat got started. Isa.40:22 seems to say quite the opposite. Maybe the whole flat earth thing was just religious zealots taking the bible out of context, not the bible itself being in error.

Yeah, we had this debate on another thread. That verse you gave is a classic argument against the Bible, as it mentions the earth in terms of a round, flat figure. A circle is flat; a circle is flat; a circle is flat. Maybe God meant 'horizen;' maybe God meant 'sphere.' My point, however, is that if we take the Bible AS WRITTEN, we get a flat earth that never moves.

-jon

P.S. The name is Cancer To Iniquity, not Inequity. No big deal, but I'd rather be a thorn in the side of evil than a thorn in the side of unfairness

BigJon · May 13, 2002

Originally posted by Cancer To Iniquity

Maybe God meant 'horizen;' maybe God meant 'sphere.'

Yeah, tell God what he meant.

BigJon · May 13, 2002

Originally posted by God Fixation
Because it is what many people want to hear. They don't want a God that tells them what to do, or what not to do. They want to act like animals and evoloution excuses it.

Amen to that.

Final stumpers for Creationists

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