Final Authority?

Everlasting33 · Apr 16, 2009

Do marriages need a final authority?

Typically, the final authority is the man.

I am debating this topic in another thread and most argue that every social unit on Earth has someone who is the final authority.

Should this apply within marriages? Why or why not? What are the benefits and disadvantages of the method of final authority?

cantata · Apr 16, 2009

I think assuming that one or other party has final authority is likely to lead to more occasions where a final authority is believed to be needed.

Everlasting33 · Apr 16, 2009

cantata said:
I think assuming that one or other party has final authority is likely to lead to more occasions where a final authority is believed to be needed.

So do you believe marriages should have a final authority?

cantata · Apr 16, 2009

Steelerbred33 said:
So do you believe marriages should have a final authority?

I believe that it is up to couples to decide whether they believe a final authority is necessary.

Personally I find the notion deeply unpleasant.

Everlasting33 · Apr 16, 2009

cantata said:
I believe that it is up to couples to decide whether they believe a final authority is necessary.

Personally I find the notion deeply unpleasant.

If final authority is implemented in all social units (assuming this is the correct way of social behavior), what about it makes it wrong in marriage?

gwenmead · Apr 16, 2009

I don't think marriages need to be structured with one partner as a final authority. Mine certainly doesn't. But some couples find it useful to do it that way. Giving one person the final say can certainly simplify decision-making, especially when there's an impasse.

Giving one person final authority can remove responsibility from the other partner - one can look at this as either relieving a burden, or as an abdication of adult responsibilities (or both). It can also leave the person without authority at the mercy of the person who holds it. In theory this might work, but in practice, well - power corrupts.

What are you thinking of when you say "social units"? Just marriages? Or families in general? Or any relationship? Or are there other social groupings you had in mind too, like work situations? Curious on that, before I consider what I think about ideas of hierarchy and authority in "social units"...

quatona · Apr 16, 2009

Steelerbred33 said:
Do marriages need a final authority?

No, why would they?

Typically, the final authority is the man.

Not where I come from.

I am debating this topic in another thread and most argue that every social unit on Earth has someone who is the final authority.

Even if this were true this would be a fallacious argument.

Should this apply within marriages?

I´d submit that this the business of the two persons married.

Why or why not?

I´d like to see a good argument why. And once I have seen that argument I would like to see a good argument why the determining factor should be the gender.
Personally, I prefer adult, equal relationships, and - while I see how in larger groups hierarchies can possibly have their merits I don´t see any need whatsoever for them in relationships between two persons.

What are the benefits and disadvantages of the method of final authority?

Convenience, possibly.

Everlasting33 · Apr 16, 2009

gwenmead said:
I don't think marriages need to be structured with one partner as a final authority. Mine certainly doesn't. But some couples find it useful to do it that way. Giving one person the final say can certainly simplify decision-making, especially when there's an impasse.

Giving one person final authority can remove responsibility from the other partner - one can look at this as either relieving a burden, or as an abdication of adult responsibilities (or both). It can also leave the person without authority at the mercy of the person who holds it. In theory this might work, but in practice, well - power corrupts.

What are you thinking of when you say "social units"? Just marriages? Or families in general? Or any relationship? Or are there other social groupings you had in mind too, like work situations? Curious on that, before I consider what I think about ideas of hierarchy and authority in "social units"...

A social unit encompasses all social behaviors...work, relationships, even sports teams. Every company has a head boss. Every sports team has a head coach. Every country has someone has a President. There is always someone who maintains the final authority, responsibility or accountability..or should!

So, why should marriages be different?

Everlasting33 · Apr 16, 2009

quatona said:
No, why would they?

Not where I come from.

Even if this were true this would be a fallacious argument.

I´d submit that this the business of the two persons married.

I´d like to see a good argument why. And once I have seen that argument I would like to see a good argument why the determining factor should be the gender.
Personally, I prefer adult, equal relationships, and - while I see how in larger groups hierarchies can possibly have their merits I don´t see any need whatsoever for them in relationships between two persons.

Convenience, possibly.

Is it wrong to have final authority when the purpose is for the man to maintain the ultimate responsibility and accountability for the direction of the relationship? Why or why not?

quatona · Apr 16, 2009

Steelerbred33 said:
So do you believe marriages should have a final authority?

As long as the question hasn´t been conclusively answered and as long as we haven´t determined who the final authority should be, I don´t even know whether my opinion counts here.
IOW: I might have to ask my wife.

DZoolander · Apr 16, 2009

Steelerbred33 said:
Do marriages need a final authority?

Typically, the final authority is the man.

I am debating this topic in another thread and most argue that every social unit on Earth has someone who is the final authority.

Should this apply within marriages? Why or why not? What are the benefits and disadvantages of the method of final authority?

I believe in any good relationship - "final authority" alternates depending on the issue. For example in my marriage - there are things that I'm better at - and there are things that she's better at. I don't believe that by virtue of my having male bits that somehow my word trumps hers on everything.

There are things that she accepts my word as being the "final authority" on - and I pay her the same courtesy.

Everlasting33 · Apr 16, 2009

quatona said:
As long as the question hasn´t been conclusively answered and as long as we haven´t determined who the final authority should be, I don´t even know whether my opinion counts here.
IOW: I might have to ask my wife.

Your opinion counts here, even if you have to go and ask your wife.

Everlasting33 · Apr 16, 2009

EZoolander said:
I believe in any good relationship - "final authority" alternates depending on the issue. For example in my marriage - there are things that I'm better at - and there are things that she's better at. I don't believe that by virtue of my having male bits that somehow my word trumps hers on everything.

There are things that she accepts my word as being the "final authority" on - and I pay her the same courtesy.

In the same way that a sports team has a head coach, do you believe a man should be the final authority figure?

quatona · Apr 16, 2009

Steelerbred33 said:
Is it wrong to have final authority when the purpose is for the man to maintain the ultimate responsibility and accountability for the direction of the relationship?

Is it wrong to have final authority when the prupose is for the woman to maintain the ultimate responsibility and accountrability for the direction of the relationship?

Why or why not?

Yes. Because my wife, the final authority, says so.

What people do within their marriages is not for me to judge.
Personally, a concept like "final authority" isn´t reconcilable with my idea of a mature relationship.
Besides, the whole thing is pretty lame as long as the "final authority" isn´t equipped with the right to sentence the disobedient partner with the death penalty.

DZoolander · Apr 16, 2009

That's really hard to say.

The ego-ist in me would like to say yes - but there have been plenty of times in the past where I've wanted to do some boneheaded thing - and it was in my best interests to actually relinquish "final authority" to my wife.

There are things that I'm better with also.

So I have a problem with giving a "final" answer to that...lol I really do think that a good relationship is give and take.

DZoolander · Apr 16, 2009

(however on a side note - I do think that on pretty much every issue - if I were to assert authority - she'd accept it.)

Everlasting33 · Apr 16, 2009

EZoolander said:
That's really hard to say.

The ego-ist in me would like to say yes - but there have been plenty of times in the past where I've wanted to do some boneheaded thing - and it was in my best interests to actually relinquish "final authority" to my wife.

There are things that I'm better with also.

So I have a problem with giving a "final" answer to that...lol I really do think that a good relationship is give and take.

As a Christian, Scripture says you are the head and authority over your wife. What say you?

quatona · Apr 16, 2009

Steelerbred33 said:
In the same way that a sports team has a head coach, do you believe a man should be the final authority figure?

No. Neither do I believe that among two persons one needs to be the coach (because if one outof of a couple would be the coach there wouldn´t be a team left to be coached, to begin with), nor do I see a reason why final authority figures - assuming for a moment they are needed - would have to be male.

Braunwyn · Apr 16, 2009

Steelerbred33 said:
A social unit encompasses all social behaviors...work, relationships, even sports teams. Every company has a head boss. Every sports team has a head coach. Every country has someone has a President. There is always someone who maintains the final authority, responsibility or accountability..or should!

So, why should marriages be different?

I have a ton of friends. I don't think my girlfriends would appreciate the idea that I was the final authority in our relationships. It rings of parent/child dynamic. I can see how this might work out better in a marriage where one of the two involved tends to lack maturity and reasoning ability. I can also see this being fruitful when in a relationship with a destructive person (like a dependent family member).

Steelerbred33 said:
Is it wrong to have final authority when the purpose is for the man to maintain the ultimate responsibility and accountability for the direction of the relationship? Why or why not?

It wouldn't make sense if the purpose is for the woman to have ultimate responsibility for the direction of the relationship. As others have stated, it depends on the issue. So, pick an issue (finances, education/career choices, etc).

Everlasting33 · Apr 16, 2009

quatona said:
No. Neither do I believe that among two persons one needs to be the coach (because if one of a couple would be the coach there wouldn´t be a team to be coached, to begin with), nor do I see a reason why final authority figures - assuming for a moment they are needed - would have to be male.

According to Christianity, God appointed men as the authority figures.

However, in Non Christian homes, how would one appoint a final authority figure? *Assuming they are needed!

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