File Sharing or Stealing

Crowns&Laurels · Nov 23, 2015

Sharing files is no different than sneaking into a movie theater. No product is being lost, it's just being enjoyed by those who aren't ever going to pay for it anyway.
It shows wonderful character, let me tell you, to go after these people when you aren't losing a single dime. You just want to punish them for what you perceive as 'cheating'.
The whole 'it's not a victimless crime' thing is untrue. It IS a victimless crime. There ain't no developers hurting from piracy, it's only even in the law so that the industry doesn't simply go void. One's eyes upon a screen does not affect another's income, and big Media just has people on a guilt trip.

Butterfly99 · Nov 23, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
Sharing files is no different than sneaking into a movie theater. No product is being lost, it's just being enjoyed by those who aren't ever going to pay for it anyway.
It shows wonderful character, let me tell you, to go after these people when you aren't losing a single dime. You just want to punish them for what you perceive as 'cheating'.
The whole 'it's not a victimless crime' thing is untrue. It IS a victimless crime. There ain't no developers hurting from piracy, it's only even in the law so that the industry doesn't simply go void. One's eyes upon a screen does not affect another's income, and big Media just has people on a guilt trip.

As a Christian you think it's OK to sneak into a movie theater? For real?

Crowns&Laurels · Nov 23, 2015

Butterfly99 said:
As a Christian you think it's OK to sneak into a movie theater? For real?

Sneaking into a movie theater isn't stealing, because there is literally no product being taken. It's a false comparison and everyone knows it. It's more like 'trespassing', and that is what a person would get in trouble for if they were caught. Even the law doesn't recognize it as theft.

If the law doesn't recognize that as theft, then the law doesn't really consider file sharing theft either. The intent of the law when it comes to piracy is making an industry of selling such files. To make it about anything else is just throwing a tantrum.

And
I don't concern my Christian beliefs with something so petty as sneaking into a movie theater, no. If you want to call out another person's sin, be prepared to wear your own on your forehead.

Butterfly99 · Nov 23, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
Sneaking into a movie theater isn't stealing, because there is literally no product being taken. It's a false comparison and everyone knows it. It's more like 'trespassing', and that is what a person would get in trouble for if they were caught. Even the law doesn't recognize it as theft.

If the law doesn't recognize that as theft, then the law doesn't really consider file sharing theft either. The intent of the law when it comes to piracy is making an industry of selling such files. To make it about anything else is just throwing a tantrum.

And
I don't concern my Christian beliefs with something so petty as sneaking into a movie theater, no.

It is stealing cause you're getting an experience you didn't pay for like the rest of the honest folks did. You just want to justify your wrong.

Crowns&Laurels · Nov 23, 2015

Butterfly99 said:
It is stealing cause you're getting an experience you didn't pay for like the rest of the honest folks did. You just want to justify your wrong.

Define 'stealing' please.

durangodawood · Nov 23, 2015

Not sure if pirating software, or sneaking onto a theater, is "stealing" or not. But its morally wrong, for sure.

Butterfly99 · Nov 23, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
Define 'stealing' please.

For real? How old are you. Stealing is taking something that isn't yours without paying for it. When you sneak into a movie theater, you're taking a seat & an experience that you didn't pay for like all the honest folks. Do you think it's OK to sleep in someone's house w/out their permission so long as they're not using the bed? Will not be surprised if you then tell me that's exactly what you do cause you're a hobo or something.

KitKatMatt · Nov 23, 2015

Mex5150 said:
As I already said somewhere above, I discovered one of my favourite bands purely because I downloaded a couple of tracks to see what they were like, I've since gone on to buy everything they have released, I've gone to see them live a couple of times, and have a few of their official t-Shirts, none of the revenue from this would have reached them if it wasn't for that initial pirate download, it's VERY unlikely I would have discovered them without this.

This is the same experience I have had!

I would have never been able to even watch some of the shows I was interested in if it weren't for piracy, and I want SO BADLY to buy them! Unfortunately, they're not available literally anywhere I have searched. Seriously, if someone knows where it is, they need to link me to it right this instant and I will buy the heck out of it (Ginga Nagareboshi Gin and Ginga Densetsu Weed if anyone's interested. The second one has a few bootlegged DVDs on Ebay, and even THOSE are new, but I'm not buying bootlegs).

Some people out there might be content to just download stuff and never actually buy it and support the people making it. I am not. Most of the people I know are not. We are all artists and we know the value of supporting the people who make everything. However, the globe is a big place, and sometimes it's hard or even impossible to find official copies of things.

It took me years to find some animated films from overseas that I had downloaded earlier. The moment I found them, I imported them at quite a cost. Later on, they became available on Amazon, which made me both happy (other people can easily get it!) and sad (booo I spent three times as much on that other website!). I Google Translated Danish for three days to organize the purchase and delivery of one of them, this is how much I value supporting the makers.

Because these things were never shown or on sale in my country, I couldn't even preview them (the ones that took years of searching for) without downloading them. If they were available, I didn't even think of downloading and just bought them.

NothingIsImpossible · Nov 23, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
Sneaking into a movie theater isn't stealing, because there is literally no product being taken. It's a false comparison and everyone knows it. It's more like 'trespassing', and that is what a person would get in trouble for if they were caught. Even the law doesn't recognize it as theft.

Even though people don't like it, legally you are correct. We are to obey the law of the land. And seeing a movie by sneaking in is not theft, therefor not stealing however....

And
I don't concern my Christian beliefs with something so petty as sneaking into a movie theater, no. If you want to call out another person's sin, be prepared to wear your own on your forehead.

The problem is if your obeying the lands law then the law would state you pay to go see a movie. So you are breaking the law none the less by trespassing. Which is a sin. As someone else said, you are trying to justify your wrong. Likley out of anger or guilt because you were called on the carpet about it. There is a difference between judging and being corrected. Currently you are being corrected. And the bible says:

Proverbs 12:1
Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Proverbs 15:32
Whoever ignores instruction despises himself, but he who listens to reproof gains intelligence.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light, and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life

Me? I'd never sneak into a theater. Though when I was younger I did only a few times. But we all do dumb things when young. You say its something petty. But does the bible say to ignore the petty things? Nope. All sins and wrong doing are equal.

Crowns&Laurels · Nov 23, 2015

NothingIsImpossible said:
As someone else said, you are trying to justify your wrong.

I'm not justifying anything, I'm pointing out that calling someone an immoral-thief-criminal to be prosecuted for file sharing is an obnoxious morality complex that deserves ridicule.

Nobody is losing anything, what happened is that Media put one on a guilt trip about it and just like everything else it hypnotizes them with, they just carry on with it. They outright called it theft, but let the blind man see the dark I suppose.

durangodawood · Nov 23, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
I'm not justifying anything, I'm pointing out that calling someone an immoral-thief-criminal to be prosecuted for file sharing is an obnoxious morality complex that deserves ridicule, especially when nobody is losing anything.

So we've departed the argument, and moved on to the attitude.

Ada Lovelace · Nov 23, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
Sneaking into a movie theater isn't stealing, because there is literally no product being taken. It's a false comparison and everyone knows it. It's more like 'trespassing', and that is what a person would get in trouble for if they were caught. Even the law doesn't recognize it as theft.

If the law doesn't recognize that as theft, then the law doesn't really consider file sharing theft either. The intent of the law when it comes to piracy is making an industry of selling such files. To make it about anything else is just throwing a tantrum.

And
I don't concern my Christian beliefs with something so petty as sneaking into a movie theater, no. If you want to call out another person's sin, be prepared to wear your own on your forehead.

You are incorrect both on the law and the morality of sneaking into a movie theater. It's classified as theft of services, and people have been prosecuted for the crime. Theaters do not magically sprout up and self-maintain themselves. If you're wanting to see something spectacular without paying for it, go outside on a gorgeous day and watch the sunset. Theaters require a substantial amount of financial investment in keeping them operational and paying for the rights to screen the movies. Employees clean the theaters and facilities and run the movies, and they are paid for their efforts. When you purchase a ticket your money isn't just going to the stars of the movie or the moguls producing them, but the high school kid who is sweeping up popcorn and mopping the restroom floors. When the theater loses revenue because of people sneaking into theaters, it is the employees like them who are the most likely to suffer. You are profiting from the labor and services of others without paying for it.

As for the morality of it, sneaking into a movie theater because you don't want to or cannot afford to pay for the ticket isn't on par with Jean Valjean stealing the loaf of bread to feed his sister's malnourished and starving children. It is fulfilling a want and not a need. You will survive just fine without seeing the movie in the theater or via pirating. And you come across as the belligerent one having a tantrum because people have reasonably questioned you.

Crowns&Laurels · Nov 23, 2015

Stanfordella said:
Theaters do not magically sprout up and self-maintain themselves.

At ten dollars a ticket, and the crazy amount of money they make off of people, the hypocrisy is almost cringing talking about 'morality'. If a person doesn't want to acknowledge error on one side, then don't attack the other.

Mex5150 · Nov 23, 2015

Butterfly99 said:
Do you think it's OK to sleep in someone's house w/out their permission so long as they're not using the bed?

So if Crowns&Laurels didn't break into a house but slept there without permission, then left taking nothing with him (assuming Crowns&Laurels is a guy, sorry if not), would you consider that stealing?

Will not be surprised if you then tell me that's exactly what you do cause you're a hobo or something.

Was that ad hominem really necessary?

KitKatMatt said:
I would have never been able to even watch some of the shows I was interested in if it weren't for piracy, and I want SO BADLY to buy them! Unfortunately, they're not available literally anywhere I have searched. Seriously, if someone knows where it is, they need to link me to it right this instant and I will buy the heck out of it (Ginga Nagareboshi Gin and Ginga Densetsu Weed if anyone's interested.

The only place I can recall seeing these on sale is in Japan, you could try emailing DDDHouse though, as they are usually really good at tracking stuff down (or at least they used to be, I admit I haven’t used them for a couple of years now).

Ada Lovelace · Nov 23, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
At ten dollars a ticket, and the crazy amount of money they make off of people, the hypocrisy of calling out people who sneak in is laughable to me.
Let me play this tiny violin to express that tragedy.

Do as you please. I'm not pulling out a violin for the people who sneak into a movie theater and then get arrested for their crime.

Movie tickets cost considerably more than $10 where I live. People who have integrity but not the disposable income to spend on the tickets simply do not go to the theater to see the movie. It's a very simple concept.

Crowns&Laurels · Nov 23, 2015

Stanfordella said:
Do as you please. I'm not pulling out a violin for the people who sneak into a movie theater and then get arrested for their crime.

Movie tickets cost considerably more than $10 where I live. People who have integrity but not the disposable income to spend on the tickets simply do not go to the theater to see the movie. It's a very simple concept.

It will be a cold day in Hell before I ever consider someone a thief for staring at a screen of actors who have a hundred million in the bank. Insane amounts of money are all through that entire industry, to a point where it's actually hurting the distribution in this country.
So don't be surprised if people like me have emerged and called out that sheep mentality the media demands.

KitKatMatt · Nov 23, 2015

Mex5150 said:
The only place I can recall seeing these on sale is in Japan, you could try emailing DDDHouse though, as they are usually really good at tracking stuff down (or at least they used to be, I admit I haven’t used them for a couple of years now).

Thank you for the suggestion! I will see if they can help

Butterfly99 · Nov 23, 2015

Mex5150 said:
So if Crowns&Laurels didn't break into a house but slept there without permission, then left taking nothing with him (assuming Crowns&Laurels is a guy, sorry if not), would you consider that stealing?

Do you really need to ask that question?

Was that ad hominem really necessary?

Is he a little kid or something that needs you to speak for him? I felt it was necessary cause he sure seem to be fine with freeloading. I actually just now read another post where he said he's something of a vagrant so it turns out I wasn't that far off the mark. Now if his friends let him sleep there, no grudges, then that's one thing. Not the same as sneaking into somebody's house to sleep there or sneaking into a theater.

Did you really join here in 2012 and not write any posts till you decided to speak up on this thread? Nothing wrong w that but it's kinda odd.

durangodawood · Nov 23, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
It will be a cold day in Hell before I ever consider someone a thief for staring at a screen of actors who have a hundred million in the bank. Insane amounts of money are all through that entire industry, to a point where it's actually hurting the distribution in this country.
So don't be surprised if people like me have emerged and called out that sheep mentality the media demands.

Demands?
No one who produces media demands that you must enjoy their product.
Likewise, you dont get to demand they provide it at the price you prefer.
Seller sets the price in a market where buyers can refuse.
The entitlement on display here is staggering.

NothingIsImpossible · Nov 23, 2015

To be fair maybe the companies, celebs...etc make alot of money off the movie. But those who aren't in those positions don't make alot. They guy who painted the set, the guy who setup the lights, the girl who put together the outfits, the girl who had to set the props in the right spot every scene...etc. So avoiding paying $10 does hurt them a bit. Granted the studios could pay all those people more if they wanted with all the money that is made. Personally I go see movies at my local Regal on tuesday. Its only $5 for any movie at any time (day or night). Some regals do this. If the tickets were normal price I'd not see the movies. I'd be renting them. If you can't afford it then you it doens't mean steal. BTW I say this as someone who used to um "try" full games from online before I bought them. Nasty habit I got out of.

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