Few Questions??

[dannheim]

We don't want to attend just to be shunned or judged because our past sins.
I might have gone a little to far on this post, but a simple response of hey this denomination is close in foundation to your beliefs. We don't need Satan created denominations.

Any church that would judge you based upon something you did previously to your conversion is not worthy of even being called part of the Lord's Church.
As far as a suggestion for you, how about exploring the possibilty of becoming a Messianic Jew?

 

[Frozenocean]

Any church that would judge you based upon something you did previously to your conversion is not worthy of even being called part of the Lord's Church.
As far as a suggestion for you, how about exploring the possibilty of becoming a Messianic Jew?

I've never heard of Messianic Jew but after looking it up it definitely seems to me (just my opinion) like a Old Testament Christian? If that makes any sense at all? Very structured in Old Testament ways combined with Jesus as savior aspect?

 

[dannheim]

I've never heard of Messianic Jew but after looking it up it definitely seems to me (just my opinion) like a Old Testament Christian? If that makes any sense at all? Very structured in Old Testament ways combined with Jesus as savior aspect?

On the contrary all disciples and the early church were Messianic Jews and the entire new testament was written by Messianic Jews through the inspiration of tne Holy Spirit.

YESHUA was a rabbi and very Jewish. Messianic Jews maintain a separate tradition until over 700 AD. At which time they were assimilated into the Gentile Christian faith due to the overwhelming numbers of Gentile Christians

What is Messianic Judaism? - Congregation Shema Yisrael

Of course you don't have to be Messianic Jew to be a Christian. But they do welcome gentiles. They do celebrate Jewish traditions and holidays as they are commanded to by God. They do however recognize the New Covenant of Jesus and that the law of Moses Covenant has been broken due to the fact there is no Temple and a majority of the law makes reference to the sacrifices. They do recognize what we call the New Testament as the New Covenant and is holy and being inspired by God

 

[michael10sley]

new here and have some questions about denominations, bible history, just some general newer Christian questions that google can't seem to help with.

Denomination wise:
Never had a denomination really as an adult. As a child southern baptist. Attended a Wesleyan church later, recently went to a Presbyterian church which shunned us from joining once they found out we where not married when our child was born. Major turn off for a re-organized christian. Here are some questions personally about which denomination we might fit best into for anyone willing to give help.
1. To me God The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are 3 different beings/entities.
2. I believe once you are saved you can always loose grace and salvation until once again you whole heartedly and humbly give your life to God.
3. We do not believe women should be leaders of a church. Not a sexist thing that's just how we interpret women's role in the Bible. No arguments needed.
4. The KJV is not the end all correct Bible. Is it accurate sure. But we don't think a church that says the KJV is the only correct bible is true.
5. Elders and deacons and such are fine but modern day prophets are a big no go for us. We put our faith in God. Not dave down the street.
6. Hell is a spiritual place of non believers. I believe that God will save those and all of those who come to him and repent and ask for and seek grace through him.
7. Speaking in tongues. Snakes. Hell fire Brimstone. If I drink 3 beers over the weekend I'm bound for eternal damnation. No thank you.
8. Jesus is Gods son. A spiritual messenger and teacher who performed works and miracles and died for our sins.

So what would we fit into church wise

I'll start with this Bible question.
God in genesis has his sons around and lucifer "light bringer" "knowledge" etc is there.....if angels are sons of god would that not make lucifer a son of god?

Frozenocean,

I'm curious how you interpret the Bible. The way most pastors and Bible teachers do it is by using the simplest explanation and we all should use that approach. It is called exegesis.

We know that God created Adam and Eve to produce offspring which would be called 'men' or mankind and, He never called Adam or his children 'sons' although Luke in his geneaology says Adam was the 'son of God', Luke 3:38, so we can deduce that His 'sons' were another type of creature, most probably angels since they are called the Heavenly Host and there are many of them.

The story is in Genesis 6:1-8 in Noah's time, he being the 10th generation from Adam, so there were plenty of women around by then. Its unclear whether, in Genesis 6:4, the sons who were called " the heroes of old, men of renown" are the children of God's sons and human women or actually God's sons. Moses, through the Lord, threw us another curve ball by adding the Nephilim in that same verse. Since whoever the 'heroes of old' are are written of as being good we can be certain the 'sons' of God weren't of the third of the angels who rebelled with Lucifer.

Angels are the obvious choice to be God's sons and whether Lucifer is no longer considered one of God's sons or not, he most certainly was at some time as were his rebellious comrades.

As for the Presbyterians shunning you and your family, they are obviously legalists when the Bible clearly states we are dead to the Law (and being judgmental) because that covenant was replaced by a better one, God's New Covenant of Grace, Romans 6:14. Hopefully you shook the dust off your shoes as you left.

In Christ Jesus,
Michael

 

[Thedictator]

new here and have some questions about denominations, bible history, just some general newer Christian questions that google can't seem to help with.

Denomination wise:
Never had a denomination really as an adult. As a child southern baptist. Attended a Wesleyan church later, recently went to a Presbyterian church which shunned us from joining once they found out we where not married when our child was born. Major turn off for a re-organized christian. Here are some questions personally about which denomination we might fit best into for anyone willing to give help.
1. To me God The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are 3 different beings/entities.
2. I believe once you are saved you can always loose grace and salvation until once again you whole heartedly and humbly give your life to God.
3. We do not believe women should be leaders of a church. Not a sexist thing that's just how we interpret women's role in the Bible. No arguments needed.
4. The KJV is not the end all correct Bible. Is it accurate sure. But we don't think a church that says the KJV is the only correct bible is true.
5. Elders and deacons and such are fine but modern day prophets are a big no go for us. We put our faith in God. Not dave down the street.
6. Hell is a spiritual place of non believers. I believe that God will save those and all of those who come to him and repent and ask for and seek grace through him.
7. Speaking in tongues. Snakes. Hell fire Brimstone. If I drink 3 beers over the weekend I'm bound for eternal damnation. No thank you.
8. Jesus is Gods son. A spiritual messenger and teacher who performed works and miracles and died for our sins.

So what would we fit into church wise better?

I'll start with this Bible question.
God in genesis has his sons around and lucifer "light bringer" "knowledge" etc is there.....if angels are sons of god would that not make lucifer a son of god?

Most of what you believe would be in line with the Churches of Christ ( NOT the United Church of Christ)

 

[least]

They're sorta Trinitarian. Their official creedal statement is worded such that there's room to work around it. That's my view, but it was made by other observers when it was promulgated some years ago, replacing a more clearcut statement.

Check it out:

"We believe in God, the Eternal Spirit, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ and our
Father, and to his deeds we testify:

He calls the worlds into being, creates man in his own image and sets before him the ways of life and death.

He seeks in holy love to save all people from aimlessness and sin.

He judges men and nations by his righteous will declared through prophets and apostles.

In Jesus Christ, the man of Nazareth, our crucified and risen Lord, he has come to us and shared our common lot, conquering sin and death and reconciling the world to himself.

He bestows upon us his Holy Spirit, creating and renewing the church of Jesus Christ, binding in covenant faithful people of all ages, tongues, and races. "


Yes.

They're sorta Trinitarian. Their official creedal statement is worded such that there's room to work around it. That's my view, but it was made by other observers when it was promulgated some years ago, replacing a more clearcut statement.

Check it out:

"We believe in God, the Eternal Spirit, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ and our
Father, and to his deeds we testify:

He calls the worlds into being, creates man in his own image and sets before him the ways of life and death.

He seeks in holy love to save all people from aimlessness and sin.

He judges men and nations by his righteous will declared through prophets and apostles.

In Jesus Christ, the man of Nazareth, our crucified and risen Lord, he has come to us and shared our common lot, conquering sin and death and reconciling the world to himself.

He bestows upon us his Holy Spirit, creating and renewing the church of Jesus Christ, binding in covenant faithful people of all ages, tongues, and races. "


Yes.

Southern Baptist believe in the Trinity and do not allow women Pastors. Here is the Baptist Faith and Message which list their primary beliefs...
Southern Baptist Convention > The Baptist Faith and Message

 

[BobRyan]

new here and have some questions about denominations, bible history, just some general newer Christian questions that google can't seem to help with.

Denomination wise:
Never had a denomination really as an adult. As a child southern baptist. Attended a Wesleyan church later, recently went to a Presbyterian church which shunned us from joining once they found out we where not married when our child was born. Major turn off for a re-organized christian. Here are some questions personally about which denomination we might fit best into for anyone willing to give help.
1. To me God The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are 3 different beings/entities.
2. I believe once you are saved you can always loose grace and salvation until once again you whole heartedly and humbly give your life to God.
3. We do not believe women should be leaders of a church. Not a sexist thing that's just how we interpret women's role in the Bible. No arguments needed.
4. The KJV is not the end all correct Bible. Is it accurate sure. But we don't think a church that says the KJV is the only correct bible is true.

Ok - so far so Good.

5. Elders and deacons and such are fine but modern day prophets are a big no go for us. We put our faith in God. Not dave down the street.

You have a problem there since no Bible author writes "reject all prophets because that is the only way to show that you have faith in God" --- where did you come up with that?

Granted it is a simple solution to false prophets - but it is not a Bible solution. For good reason.

6. Hell is a spiritual place of non believers. I believe that God will save those and all of those who come to him and repent and ask for and seek grace through him.

God will save all that come to Him. But God destroyed the world by a flood - saving only 8. God says in Matt 10:28 that He will "destroy both body and soul in fiery hell"

7. Speaking in tongues. Snakes. Hell fire Brimstone. If I drink 3 beers over the weekend I'm bound for eternal damnation. No thank you.

Mixing up a lot of topics there - not sure why.

8. Jesus is Gods son. A spiritual messenger and teacher who performed works and miracles and died for our sins.

And is in heaven now as our High Priest - God the Son. Paul calls this "the main point" in Hebrews 8:1

God in genesis has his sons around and lucifer "light bringer" "knowledge" etc is there.....if angels are sons of god would that not make lucifer a son of god?

Yes. The "sons of God" were all created directly by God. So then Lucifer and Adam both are of that category although Lucifer was Cherub - Angel. And Adam of course was human. The first human created -- Eve being the second human.

 

[BobRyan]

I took it and it came up with Episcopalian?

You don't believe in believer's baptism?

 

[dannheim]

Southern Baptist believe in the Trinity and do not allow women Pastors. Here is the Baptist Faith and Message which list their primary beliefs...
Southern Baptist Convention > The Baptist Faith and Message

Too bad. I wonder how God could lift up Deborah as one of the Judges and yet Baptists reject women in a much lesser role as a Pastor of a church.

 

[hokeith]

new here and have some questions about denominations, bible history, just some general newer Christian questions that google can't seem to help with.

Denomination wise:
Never had a denomination really as an adult. As a child southern baptist. Attended a Wesleyan church later, recently went to a Presbyterian church which shunned us from joining once they found out we where not married when our child was born. Major turn off for a re-organized christian. Here are some questions personally about which denomination we might fit best into for anyone willing to give help.
1. To me God The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are 3 different beings/entities.
2. I believe once you are saved you can always loose grace and salvation until once again you whole heartedly and humbly give your life to God.
3. We do not believe women should be leaders of a church. Not a sexist thing that's just how we interpret women's role in the Bible. No arguments needed.
4. The KJV is not the end all correct Bible. Is it accurate sure. But we don't think a church that says the KJV is the only correct bible is true.
5. Elders and deacons and such are fine but modern day prophets are a big no go for us. We put our faith in God. Not dave down the street.
6. Hell is a spiritual place of non believers. I believe that God will save those and all of those who come to him and repent and ask for and seek grace through him.
7. Speaking in tongues. Snakes. Hell fire Brimstone. If I drink 3 beers over the weekend I'm bound for eternal damnation. No thank you.
8. Jesus is Gods son. A spiritual messenger and teacher who performed works and miracles and died for our sins.

So what would we fit into church wise better?

I'll start with this Bible question.
God in genesis has his sons around and lucifer "light bringer" "knowledge" etc is there.....if angels are sons of god would that not make lucifer a son of god?

What if you were to focus less on denomination and go to a Christian church with friends? Might that be a good place to start?

But, another point: it should be difficult to find a church where you are not offended (not talking about hypocritical judgment you endured) or challenged. How else are you going to grow?

 

[Albion]

Too bad. I wonder how God could lift up Deborah as one of the Judges and yet Baptists reject women in a much lesser role as a Pastor of a church.

They're different roles.

 

[Thedictator]

You have a problem there since no Bible author writes "reject all prophets because that is the only way to show that you have faith in God" --- where did you come up with that?

Granted it is a simple solution to false prophets - but it is not a Bible solution. For good reason.

He was talking about modern day prophets, and he is right. All modern day prophets are false prophets. The Bible is our final prophecy.

 

[Thedictator]

I HAVE ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS BELOW

new here and have some questions about denominations, bible history, just some general newer Christian questions that google can't seem to help with.

Denomination wise:
Never had a denomination really as an adult. As a child southern baptist. Attended a Wesleyan church later, recently went to a Presbyterian church which shunned us from joining once they found out we where not married when our child was born. Major turn off for a re-organized christian. Here are some questions personally about which denomination we might fit best into for anyone willing to give help.
1. To me God The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are 3 different beings/entities.
Not sure where you are coming from on this one, but Churches of Christ believe in God the father, God the Son, and God the Spirit, that are one God. Beliefs differ on this, but we believe in a Triune nature of God, but not necessarily the doctrine of the Trinity.
2. I believe once you are saved you can always loose grace and salvation until once again you whole heartedly and humbly give your life to God.
Same Here
3. We do not believe women should be leaders of a church. Not a sexist thing that's just how we interpret women's role in the Bible. No arguments needed.
Same Here
4. The KJV is not the end all correct Bible. Is it accurate sure. But we don't think a church that says the KJV is the only correct bible is true.
Same Here
5. Elders and deacons and such are fine but modern day prophets are a big no go for us. We put our faith in God. Not dave down the street.
We have Elders who are the pastors of the Church and deacons who are servants of the Church and ministers and teachers in the Church. But no prophets
6. Hell is a spiritual place of non believers. I believe that God will save those and all of those who come to him and repent and ask for and seek grace through him.
We believe in Hell, but it is up to individual interpretation of what it is.
7. Speaking in tongues. Snakes. Hell fire Brimstone. If I drink 3 beers over the weekend I'm bound for eternal damnation. No thank you.
We do not have any of that. Drinking is up to the individual, but we do preach against drunkenness.
8. Jesus is Gods son. A spiritual messenger and teacher who performed works and miracles and died for our sins.
Jesus Christ is the only head of the Churches of Christ. We no President, No headquarters, no Church bureaucracy or hierarchy.

So what would we fit into church wise better?

I'll start with this Bible question.
God in genesis has his sons around and lucifer "light bringer" "knowledge" etc is there.....if angels are sons of god would that not make lucifer a son of god?
We are all son's of God, God made us all.

 

[Foxfyre]

That point alone would confine your choices essentially to the Unitarian Universalist Assn., Quakers, The United Church of Christ (Congregationalists), the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons), or some very small religious movements.

Catholics, Methodists, and a number of other churches agree with you there.

Scratch the Methodists from your list, unless your conscience is OK with your own particular congregation not having a woman minister although the denomination allows it.

Few churches would disagree with that.

Scratch the Mormons. Otherwise, same reply as given to point 4.

This could require some explanation. Do you mean non-Christians as well as Christians?

I'll avoid the usual jokes and say that most mainline churches would agree here.

This point is an amplification of the point made in #1. Scratch the Mormons for sure.

United Church of Christ (UCC) would be my answer (barely) except for the 'women as church leaders' issue. With that included, however, I'm not sure there is a well-known denomination that fits all the points. If I'm correct about that, you might find a non-denominational congregation that happens to fit, or else you could join a church that doesn't accept all your points but doesn't care very much if you hold to your own views.

The UCC wouldn't work for one who did not believe women should be church leaders--the UCC ordains many women and takes the more liberal position on most social issues; i.e. on being advocate for political correctness, accepting the LGBT community (same sex marriage, ordaining members of that community), approves social initiatives at all levels of government, etc. Their stated beliefs include a triune God--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one--but they don't really care how their members look at that.

So somebody not looking for a conservative or legalistic church would probably feel at home there if they could accept women as leaders.

 

[Thedictator]

1

 

[Thedictator]

[QUOTE="Foxfyre, post: 71260787,

So somebody not looking for a conservative or legalistic church would probably feel at home there if they could accept women as leaders.[/QUOTE]

Or anyone one who does not care what the Bible has to say.

 

[Albion]

The fact is that no denomination we have been able to come up with fits the points we were given to work with. Therefore, most of us seem to think it will necessary to choose between the few denominations that are not explicitly Trinitarian and otherwise come close.

 

[Foxfyre]

[QUOTE="Foxfyre, post: 71260787,

So somebody not looking for a conservative or legalistic church would probably feel at home there if they could accept women as leaders.

Or anyone one who does not care what the Bible has to say.[/QUOTE]

I am sure you really mean that, and I respect it as your conviction.

But I don't have to believe everything the charter of any particular denomination or congregation provides as a statement of faith in order to feel at home in that congregation. I have worshiped with Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Baptists, and pretty much all the Protestant denominations from the most conservative, charismatic, liberal, and everything in between and knew beyond a doubt I was worshiping with fellow Christians. I didn't believe everything they believed, but I was allowed my beliefs.

And I have left churches that had a statement of faith I could agree with pretty much down the line, but in which the congregation was so unChristian to their pastors or some members that I just could not endorse the behavior by staying there.

 

[Blade]

There comes a time or moment or it should where we realize our truth what we believe is NOT the 100% Gospel. Were talking about a GOD that has always been. Where HE says His ways are not ours nor can we know His thoughts. Other then by the sweet sweet Holy Spirit that searches so forth so on.

Picture ALL the denominations and each has its own tent. All are in ONE camp.. YESHUA/JESUS Christ. So what TENT you want to go under.. does not = the REAL gospel. To many read a verse and its what THEY personally believe it means or the person they follow..all = the real Gospel to them. And if one does not follow what THEY believe. duh YOUR wrong.

So my out look is.. I am not right nor true. If Jesus that was perfect on this earth still said.. why call me good there is only ONE good.. then.. I am not true.. HE is.

So I would look for a Church that does not follow MY personal beliefs but follow what is WRITTEN. And if its NOT written I will not follow that Church or person. So my prayer is always.. Father change ME 1st.. in Jesus name

 

[dannheim]

He was talking about modern day prophets, and he is right. All modern day prophets are false prophets. The Bible is our final prophecy.

In a sense you're correct as far as prophets predicting the future or speaking on behalf of God but the definition of a prophet is basically anyone who brings anyone to a closer relationship with God. There are plenty of prophets in that respect living today