Fermented wine or grape juice?

[JonMiller]

Do you have a car? Not necessary. Do you have a computer? Not necessary. I could go on...

Come on now, get to work on removing all not necessary things out of your life.

Jon Miller

 

[Mankin]

I honestally don't care. Back then, wine was really watered down. You had to drink it all day just to get drunk. I believe there is a verse in Proverbs where it tells you if your friend is really upset to bring him a drink to help him forget his problems. The Bible does however speak out againist depending on alcohol to get through life.

 

[Loveaboveall]

Do you have a car? Not necessary. Do you have a computer? Not necessary. I could go on...

Come on now, get to work on removing all not necessary things out of your life.

Jon Miller

You are still missing the point! A car, a computer may not be absolute necessities but are not harmful in and of themselves and if used properly could help to further the cause of Christ.

Alcohol--nothing good about it and it is poison to your body. This isn't rocket science here it is about wanting to do something even though you know it is harmful and justifying it by whatever means necessary.

 

[Mankin]

You are still missing the point! A car, a computer may not be absolute necessities but are not harmful in and of themselves and if used properly could help to further the cause of Christ.

Alcohol--nothing good about it and it is poison to your body. This isn't rocket science here it is about wanting to do something even though you know it is harmful and justifying it by whatever means necessary.

Defintely true.

 

[maco]

You are still missing the point! A car, a computer may not be absolute necessities but are not harmful in and of themselves and if used properly could help to further the cause of Christ.

Alcohol--nothing good about it and it is poison to your body. This isn't rocket science here it is about wanting to do something even though you know it is harmful and justifying it by whatever means necessary.

Cars and trucks cause many deaths and are destroying the ozone. The pollution from cars causes all kinds of sickness. Living in the city with all the traffic causes a heavy pollution causing many to become ill. Do we say that it is sin to wilfully live in the city knowing that it's harmfull to our health? Do we say that because of the deaths and pollution cars bring about in this world we should not drive them?

Regarding fermented wine, God allows His people to drink it but don't get drunk.

 

[JonMiller]

I don't see how a single drink of wine is harmful.

Note, I think it is fine to say that it is best to abstain from alcohol. Just like it is best to be a vegeterrian. It is calling any and all alcohol use a sin that I disagree with. We are too willing to call things a sin, which the Bible doesn't say is one.

To clarify, I think that if there was the choice between everyone drinking alcohol and everyone not drinking alcohol, the best choice would be for everyone to not drink alcohol. It causes too many problems, and too many people (including myself for a while) abuse it. I think that it is a good thing to discourage it's use, and to focus on how it makes it easier for us to sin and is harmful to our bodies (as is trans fats). But to call it a sin, when it isn't, and make a bigger deal (often) then things which are clearly presented as sin, seems to me to be backwards.

JM

 

[Loveaboveall]

1 cor 6:19.20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.

If you are willing to look there is more than enough evidence that says that even one ounce of alcohol is detrimental to the mind and body. Just because you can't comprehend it doesn't mean it isn't true! Research it a little and you will find the evidence. If you know it is bad for you and you still do it because you like it than doesn't James say that this is a sin when we are to glorify God with our bodies?

By the way, it is the same thing with Trans fats, sugar, or anything else, alcohol just has the added effect of suppressing your mind to limit the work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Loveaboveall]

Cars and trucks cause many deaths and are destroying the ozone. The pollution from cars causes all kinds of sickness. Living in the city with all the traffic causes a heavy pollution causing many to become ill. Do we say that it is sin to wilfully live in the city knowing that it's harmfull to our health? Do we say that because of the deaths and pollution cars bring about in this world we should not drive them?

Regarding fermented wine, God allows His people to drink it but don't get drunk.

If we are able we should move out of the cities, with pollution being only one reason. You are still trying to justify this by comparing apples and oranges. Alcohol, no reason you have to drink. Drive a car- accidents happen but it won't NECESSARILY do harm to your body. Alcohol, everytime you drink your liver must work to filter out the poison. Whether we drive or not there will still be pollution, that is our world today, If we could choose we would not breathe it but we don't have the choice.

 

[maco]

If we are able we should move out of the cities, with pollution being only one reason. You are still trying to justify this by comparing apples and oranges. Alcohol, no reason you have to drink. Drive a car- accidents happen but it won't NECESSARILY do harm to your body. Alcohol, everytime you drink your liver must work to filter out the poison. Whether we drive or not there will still be pollution, that is our world today, If we could choose we would not breathe it but we don't have the choice.

I don't know who told you alcohol was a poison. Too much alcohol can poison your system just like too much water can poison your system. Just last month there was a radio station promoting a contest to see who could drink the most water. A lady died because her body became toxit from drinking to much water all at once.

Alcohol in itself is not sin nor is it poison. Did you know
our bodies contain alcohol. That’s because the human body produces its own supply of alcohol naturally on a continuous basis, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Therefore, we always have alcohol in our bodies.

God puts meat and alcohol in the same catogory. If either one of them causes a weaker brother to stubble, in other words, someone who believes it's a sin or poison we are not to partake of them in front of that weaker brother.

 

[kimmik]

By the way, why do you think that alcohol is not illegal? Many have already given the statistics regarding its ill effects on society! Could it be about money? Society would not allow it because so many people like it? In my opinion if you outlaw other addictive drugs alcohol and tobacco should be also. Tobaccco is more addictive than heroin.

LOVE---prohibition has already been tried in this country, with disasterous results. It lead to a black market and a flourishing organized crime movement.

 

[JonMiller]

God puts meat and alcohol in the same catogory. If either one of them causes a weaker brother to stubble, in other words, someone who believes it's a sin or poison we are not to partake of them in front of that weaker brother.

There is a lot of wisdom in that verse, and I should remember to heed it.

JM

 

[CwazyfoGod]

Going back a while to where somone said that one drink of achohal can't be bad, I just wanted to say that millions(literally) of kids that arent' even teens yet become instant alchoholics becuase their dad, mom or relative gave them a little sip.....

again yah it doesn't say in the Bible, DON'T DRINK ALCHOHAL, but everyone of us has at least seen the smallest affect it can have on someone. I have a very good friend who's parents drink wine occasionaly, but he dosen't want to drink it. I mean its disgusting! And he's not even Christian.

The wine back then as someone said before was very watered down, but nowadays its totally different. I dont' see how someone could bring themselves to drink!!!

 

[JonMiller]

that isn't how it works CwazyfoGod

JM

 

[CwazyfoGod]

whaddya mean??? what isn't how it works?

 

[JonMiller]

You don't become an alcohol with a single sip. It isn't that addictive.

JM

 

[Mankin]

You don't become an alcohol with a single sip. It isn't that addictive.

JM

True. However, it is a different story with drugs. After the first try with drugs, 40 percent of people become addicted. I don't think alcohol is necessary because of all the bad things it causes. People killed by drunk driving is one of the largest causes of deaths in America.

 

[JonMiller]

That depends on the drug. Some are highly addictive, some are not so. I have been told that cigs are harder to quit than heroin.

JM

 

[Sophia7]

I have been told that cigs are harder to quit than heroin.

I've heard that from several drug addicts. Usually, they have more than one addiction, and nicotine is one of the hardest to overcome.

 

[djconklin]

You don't become an alcohol with a single sip. It isn't that addictive.

JM

I've heard that it only takes one drink for someone who's parents and ancestors were alcoholic to make one an alcoholic.

See here for the effects of just one drink:

http://www.jrussellshealth.com/alceffct.html

 

[JonMiller]

That's for small/sensitive people. They are discussing the effects of a buzz. If you are bigger/etc, there won't be any affects at all (at a single drink).

JM