Feminist Movement

[charligirl]

I


I completely agree with you that they are Christian views. And who ever said feminism was not? That whole explanation I gave was what feminism is. But there are some people that automatically think that feminists are women who wants to be superior to men. Truth be told, those women aren't feminists, they're sexists.

I still don't buy this.. if feminism is what you say then it's not about women, it's about any repressed minority. If this is the case then why identify with the word feminist?

The footnote you have chosen reveals that your views are far more about the women thing than the 'socially aware christian' thing.

In the light if this is feminism about women or not?

Sorry, not trying to be difficult, just trying to get to the heart of the issue.

 

[mpshiel]

The feminist movement was and in some ways still is a desperately needed movement. Anyone who thinks that 50, 100 or 150 years ago women were simply sitting at home as mothers is very much into an upper-middle class dream. For those who remember American Law, the first changes in employee security were after a sewing factory burned down killing over 100 women because they were locked inside to make sure they didn't use the bathroom. That was 100 years ago, but 5 years ago, the same thing occured in Thailand. If you want to go to a time when women work 12-14 hour days, die at the age of 35-45, and have thier children at thier place of work, whether a sweat shop, foundry or fish processing plant all at 40% the pay of 10 hours work by men, then enjoy, I think there are still some countries in the world where you can enjoy this pre-feminist utopia. Of course you must realize that you won't ever be able to own property, read, speak in public in the presence of men, walk anywhere without a chaperone and always be listed as under the guardianship of a man.

My major complaint is why the church often seems set against feminism rather than leading the charge. The church was set up by Christ as a radical organization, breaking down religious, social, gender and others roles and taboos. Love your enemies, respect prisoners, and eat my body and drink my blood - pretty wild statements. Besides that Christ was constantly pushing that the rich and the poor should both be treated equally, that all should be treated equally. The Church should be the one petitioning government to make sure women are paid correctly, are seen as equal in the eyes of the law and the eyes of society.

It is impossible for a independant woman to diminish a man, but rather the level of a woman brings the man she marries to the same level, opening up new challenges. The idea that women needed to be meeked or tamed only indicates that some men would rather have a servant/child than a partner. Why wouldn't you want a partner for life that wasn't as excited, educated, and ready for the future as you?

I agree that often peoples problems and personalities can appear in the movement they support; thus every movement have people in it who take it to the offensive extreme. But when I look at where I am today I thank God for those women who often went to jail so that, for example, my Father can't have me locked up in an insane asylum even though I am in my 30's simply because under the law I never become an adult.

 

[JillLars]

still don't buy this.. if feminism is what you say then it's not about women, it's about any repressed minority. If this is the case then why identify with the word feminist?

Because feminism specifically addresses the opression of women specifically, just as racism addresses the oppression of a certain racial minority. While their values are often the same, they are two different things. To call oneself a "socially concerned Christian" would be redundant, because as Christians we are all supposed to be socially concerned, identifying as a feminist simply states the issues you feel to be especially important.

 

[DaveKerwin]

The one problem I have with feminism is that most feminists do not know when to draw the line. I do not find it to be a healthy focus in life.

(edit, spelling correction made)

 

[mpshiel]

I find comments like that to be unhelpful. It is not a focus any more than speaking out against injustice is a focus. I would also be very interested in the line that "most (I assume that is the word here) feminists" cross.

I also don't really see how it relates to you except with other people's choices - that is unless you were once a radical feminist but have now stopped?

 

[DaveKerwin]

I find comments like that to be unhelpful. It is not a focus any more than speaking out against injustice is a focus. I would also be very interested in the line that "most (I assume that is the word here) feminists" cross.

I also don't really see how it relates to you except with other people's choices - that is unless you were once a radical feminist but have now stopped?

For some it is more of a focus in life than simply being a Christian, and if that is the case, I see that as a problem. I think its fine to want equality, but when it is given, its time to take it down a notch.

I don't see how Godly headship applies to you, yet you commented on that. C'mon, play fair.

If I was a woman, I would want to be treated fairly too. I think things are really great now (consider where things used to be a few decades ago). Maybe it is time to be satisfied and not make it such a big deal. Same with racial equality, if you reach fairness, then take the heat down a notch.

 

[charligirl]

I also don't really see how it relates to you except with other people's choices - that is unless you were once a radical feminist but have now stopped?

I think the feminist movement relates to everyone who lives in society... I am glad there werre women like Pankhurst in Britain who stood up for the right to vote, I am glad I have the rights and powers I have as a woman.... but the side effects from the movement, from the women who have become fanatics and swung too far the other way, also have an impact on everyone who lives in society.

I witness 'girl power' bands whose attitude and lyrics brainwash young girls into thinking women are better than men, thinking women are the same as men (equal, yes - same, no)

I see court cases in the news where women who were sacked legitimately because they were not doing their job properly, crying 'discrimination' and getting £1000's of compensation, because they know that in this day and age everyone is scared of seeming 'un' politically correct.

I see 'laddette' women down the pub knocking back pints, swearing and telling dirty jokes because they think equality means being just like men.

Being feminine is laughed at, it's seen as weak to many young impressionable girls (another thing that the 'girl power' celebrities have promoted by their public lifestyles) Whereas we were created to be feminine, our power is in that trait and God holds it as great worth. 1 Peter 3 4Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. 5For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful.

TV programmes, e-mails, movies, books, comediennes, greetings cards... all promote jokes about how men are inferior/stupid/not needed/not worthy

The rise in availability of sperm donations and women having babies without fathers. Families with 2 parents and children are not normal any more.

I believe that much of this is a side effect of the feminist movement... I am not saying the whole movement was wrong... much of it was neccessartily and righted wrongs, I am sure God was pleased. I am not saying all feminists believe what I have outlined as wrong with society is good. What I am saying is that it has gone too far the other way..

The wrong was righted........but has now become another wrong, and we are ALL affected.

 

[wonder111]

everything swings from one extreme to the other untill there is balance

 

[mpshiel]

I would agree, once fairness is achieved, there should be some leveling off, but we are far from that; and very far from that in terms of racial equality.

I think that individuals can choose extreme actions but how can a social movement. I personally think lad-ish females are not really where I am, but on the other hand, I am glad that they have the choice to be that if they so wish. That is what is it about...the choice, to fulfill yourself as a female; because everyone's idea on what is feminine isn't the same.

Also, I answered on headship because the question was who is head in our marriage - as I am married that is valid question. I am not saying, DaveKerwin, not to comment, I am just questioning who exactly are you to be drawing a line?

 

[DaveKerwin]

I would agree, once fairness is achieved, there should be some leveling off, but we are far from that; and very far from that in terms of racial equality.

I am interested to see in what ways fairness has not been achieved between males and females. Please be realistic.

 

[PrNcSsChRmNg91]

I still don't buy this.. if feminism is what you say then it's not about women, it's about any repressed minority. If this is the case then why identify with the word feminist?

Feminism is all about women and helping women. Helping fending off sexism, rape, abuse of women ect. I do think that I should be called a Feminist if I believe in these things and try to help this movement.

If I was a woman, I would want to be treated fairly too. I think things are really great now (consider where things used to be a few decades ago). Maybe it is time to be satisfied and not make it such a big deal. Same with racial equality, if you reach fairness, then take the heat down a notch.

But women still make about 70 cents for every doller a man makes. And what about rape? Rape is still high among women. There are still many things to do for women to be equal. And I agree with you once we reach fairness we'll take the heat down a notch. But even though we came a long way with feminism, I am still not satisfied.

 

[kdet]

Feminism is all about women and helping women. Helping fending off sexism, rape, abuse of women ect. I do think that I should be called a Feminist if I believe in these things and try to help this movement.



But women still make about 70 cents for every doller a man makes. And what about rape? Rape is still high among women. There are still many things to do for women to be equal. And I agree with you once we reach fairness we'll take the heat down a notch. But even though we came a long way with feminism, I am still not satisfied.

What exactly does equality have to do with rape?

 

[PrNcSsChRmNg91]

What exactly does equality have to do with rape?

Why is there such thing as rape among women? Because those men (who rape the women) want to show that they're superior to women and that they can make a woman do what ever he wants her to do. I don't believe that is equality...

 

[katelyn]

Why is there such thing as rape among women?

Because men are generally stronger than women, and it's also physically a lot easier to rape a woman that a man. Rape is very wrong, and I think people who commit rape are pretty messed up and it goes way beyond simply thinking that men are superior to women.

 

[kdet]

Because men are generally stronger than women, and it's also physically a lot easier to rape a woman that a man. Rape is very wrong, and I think people who commit rape are pretty messed up and it goes way beyond simply thinking that men are superior to women.

Amen to that. I don't believe that women being equal to men in the workplace would stop a man from raping women.

 

[Vollkommen Warrior]

I am neutral on it and it depends on the aspect in question. Women are considered LESS than men in many societies so there is definitely still a need for it. In the respect that this is changing, I support it. About time these mail shovenists get with it! Then again there are some bitter and hateful women in these movements as well. That is not so good. I think feminist sould be more of a hat to wear than a label.

"

This is for my girls
All around the world
Who've come across a man
That don't respect your worth
Thinking all women should be seen not heard
So what do we do girls?
Shout louder
Letting 'em know we're gonna stand our ground
Lift your hands high and wave 'em proud
Take a deep breath and say it out loud
Never Can
Never Will
CAN'T HOLD US DOWN!
~Christina Aguilera "Can't Hold Us Down""​

This is all well and good for the exception of women who go around looking for a fight.​

 

[PrNcSsChRmNg91]

I am neutral on it and it depends on the aspect in question. Women are considered LESS than men in many societies so there is definitely still a need for it. In the respect that this is changing, I support it. About time these mail shovenists get with it! Then again there are some bitter and hateful women in these movements as well. That is not so good. I think feminist sould be more of a hat to wear than a label.

"

This is for my girls
All around the world
Who've come across a man
That don't respect your worth
Thinking all women should be seen not heard
So what do we do girls?
Shout louder
Letting 'em know we're gonna stand our ground
Lift your hands high and wave 'em proud
Take a deep breath and say it out loud
Never Can
Never Will
CAN'T HOLD US DOWN!
~Christina Aguilera "Can't Hold Us Down""​

This is all well and good for the exception of women who go around looking for a fight.​

The whole purpose of that song is not to encourage women to go looking for a fight. It is to tell women to stand up for themselves and stay strong.

 

[snoopy2]

It seems to me that most people agree that equality is a good thing, but the more extreme feminism which goes beyond that is less admirable. But, I think a very important issue has been avoided to a large extent. While we're all arguing (oops, I meant discussing ) about the obvious aspects to feminism, such as equal rights and equal pay, the 'greyer' areas are being ignored.

What about changing family roles? Is it right for a Christian woman to go out to work and leave her child in child-care? Is it better for a child to have a 'fulfilled' mother or a mother who is there for it (even if she does have her head in the oven ). Are men equipped in the same way to care for children? Did God create us different with different abilities and gifts, or is it all societal? Has feminism made more women disatisfied with their lot, and contributed to the collapse of the family unit? And, just to throw the cat further amonst the pigeons, what about a woman's right to choose?

I know that all the issues can be extremely emotive, but I believe the evidence is all around us of how the breakdown of the family unit compacts on society. I'm definitely not saying that feminism is to blame for the whole thing - the horrendous amount of deadbeat dads out there have an awful lot to answer for - but I do think that the insidious way it makes women dissatisfied with their lot has a lot to do with it.

And, where does God come into all of it???

 

[Vollkommen Warrior]

"The whole purpose of that song is not to encourage women to go looking for a fight. It is to tell women to stand up for themselves and stay strong."

Glad to hear this for those like yourself who are mature enough to realize that.

Good points snoopy2. I agree that there are some roles that need not be challenged. I DO NOT think women should be on the front lines in the army. I also don't think women should be police officers. No flames please just my opinion. In general, women are and always will be greatly dis-advantaged when it comes to those roles.

I remember when I was in martial arts and my elder sister decided to try. I thought it was good for er until She began thinking she could beat up men! She even challenged me once. So, we "sparred" in a friendly way and I gave her enough "clues" that she got the message. I didn't hurt her but blocked everything and knocked her down a few times. I was afraid she would really get into something with some jerk who was less than human and really beat her up. She used to go looking for it. No she was not a lesbian either. She was just out to prove something. Strange. I don't think she ever really got the message though. Anyway, that's my opinion , no flames please.

 

[DaveKerwin]

And, just to throw the cat further amonst the pigeons, what about a woman's right to choose?

A woman's "choice" is the worst thing about feminism. It is empowering women to murder. What an absurd label for equality. I hope to God no women here actually believe that their choice to murder is considered liberating. If anything, it makes you look evil and heartless, not equal. Unless you think men are evil and heartless, and you want to be more like them.

Abortion is murder, and the legality of it is absolutely sickening. I have much anger towards those who are responsible for this bloody brutal murdering "freedom"