Female "pastors"

[Colabomb]

Ahhhh...so your saying that gays and lesbians go to hell regardless of their love for Christ, and that we should make them feel terrible (being also God's children) because of a lifestyle they were born into? That isn't the love Christ teaches. That is not an unfaltering, unfailing love - the love of God.

Actually the love of Preaching Repentence is the Love Christ teaches.

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

 

[Strong in Him]

The word bishop (as I understand it) when used in the bible is the same as our word pastor or minister.

It probably does. But some people seem to be saying, or have said in similar threads, that all Scripture is true and therefore to be taken literally. So I was. We don't have Bishops, or at least not people that we call Bishops as the anglicans do. Hopefully someone would counter this argument, as you did, by pointing out that you have to look at what the word really means, and meant to those to whom he was writng, rather than what it literally says. This is what I am trying to say about Paul's teaching - what does he mean, considering he had female helpers and deaconesses? What does he mean about women being quiet in church, considering he allowed them to pray and prophesy? What did he mean about some being called to be pastors, when he doesn't specify that this means men only?

 

[Trigger]

...we should make them feel terrible (being also God's children) because of a lifestyle they were born into?

Yes. If their lifestyle is a sinful one, they should feel horrible about it.

 

[Strong in Him]

you say it is not about equality , here is my observation , have you looked at women Priests on TV in the News papers etc ?
How is it that every one of them , er how can I put this , looks like a man ........... short hair , trousers etc , I think the gender issue is to a very large extent pyscological. (I don't deny you may find one or two feminine looking women "priests" , but they are the exception)

A woman's dress sense has nothing to do with her going for ordination because she feels she she should be equal to a man. Unless, of course, she feels the men in the congregation wouldn't accept a woman, so she has to try to fool the little darlings by appearing in trousers. I think most might realise the minute she opened her mouth.

I was told off for wearing tousers to preach once. Only by one member of my congregation though, the rest weren't fussed.

 

[cygnusx1]

A woman's dress sense has nothing to do with her going for ordination because she feels she she should be equal to a man. Unless, of course, she feels the men in the congregation wouldn't accept a woman, so she has to try to fool the little darlings by appearing in trousers. I think most might realise the minute she opened her mouth.

I was told off for wearing tousers to preach once. Only by one member of my congregation though, the rest weren't fussed.

it's not just the trousers , the hair style is manly.

 

[tulc]

Hey found this, haven't had a chance to look it over but it did look interesting:
http://www.womenpriests.org/default.asp
tulc(always finding interesting if odd sites)

 

[Strong in Him]

it's not just the trousers , the hair style is manly.

Is short hair particularly manly? I've had short hair nearly all my life - it looks a mess if I let it grow. As a teenager my brother had long hair. No one has ever mistaken me for either a boy or a man. And as far as I know, no one accused him of trying to look like, or be equal to, a girl.
Not sure what your point is here?

 

[Colabomb]

Is short hair particularly manly? I've had short hair nearly all my life - it looks a mess if I let it grow. As a teenager my brother had long hair. No one has ever mistaken me for either a boy or a man. And as far as I know, no one accused him of trying to look like, or be equal to, a girl.
Not sure what your point is here?

I am not necessarily agreeing with the assertion made, but one must admit that there is a "masculine" look, and a "Feminine" look.

Length does not have as much to do with it as style, but it does exist.

 

[cygnusx1]

I am not necessarily agreeing with the assertion made, but one must admit that there is a "masculine" look, and a "Feminine" look.

Length does not have as much to do with it as style, but it does exist.

absolutely right , and humans are becoming "clones" !

the unisex look is everywhere.... particularly in places of authority....

my contention is that psycology has much to do with this look , many women not being content to act like men are being conditioned into looking like men. (IMO)

 

[bliz]

1 Tim 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

You are arguing that when the word "husband" is used it means husband only and does not mean husband and wife.

Using that approach, it is then permissable for women to covet their neighbors husbands.

"Thou shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his man servant or hismaidservant or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

Wives may not be coveted, servants, animals or posessions. I'm sure you would agree that that husbands are not owned by wives. And so, it leaves the door open for women to covet their neighbor's husbands. According to your approach to scripture.

 

[Colabomb]

While I agree that that is not the strongest argument against female priests, it is true that women cannot be priests.

Again Paul appeals to Genesis for his arguement.

 

[lamblion]

Hello Catholic Dude.

Female "pastors" is a modern abomination and false teaching that has swept through modern Christian groups who have lost the original and historical facts concerning the Office that Christ originated.

False interpretations of scriptural passages and the feminist movement has contributed greatly to this situation. Passages that tell us that there is no difference between people in respect to their standing before God have been twisted to say that there is no difference between people in any way at all. The Biblical concept of headship and subordination have also been misused to bolster this change.

Sadly, there are so many now who have had female "pastors" for so long, and so many who have had only a female in this role that it is taken as normal, correct, and good. The church has not had females in the Office of Holy Ministry for almost 2,000 years for many reasons (such as clear scriptural passages in Paul) but today it is what feels right that counts, and we certainly don't want to offend anyone who wants to do just about anything in the church because that would be rude.

The question is important because it is another example of how people have put their own reasoning and wants above the Word of God. Every diviance from the Word allows more changes and error to rush in. The devil smiles.

The official position of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is the same as scripture - no female pastors. Alas, while that is still the official position there are many who wish to subvert the Word of God in this area.

Pax

Good way to stick to God's unchangable way. I don't understand why people just don't understand that God doesn't change, so why would he allow something today that has never been allowed throughout all human history? This also is a prophecy in the book of Zechariah chapter 5, and it shows that in the latter days women would surpass man, and this would be a sign that the last days or at hand and it also would be consisdered wickedness.

 

[tall73]

Hey tall73! I see you lurking up there!
tulc(just saying "hi")

Lol, yes I was, but I was on a pda and didn't want to type a ton with a stylus. Reading this LONG thread now

 

[Trigger]

Eh...I've been keeping up with this thread for a while, and really, if everyone can't agree wether it's a good thing or not...I think we should just avoid it to be safe. It doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere here (although I feel a lot more informed and aware), so I say at this point all we can do is let the Holy Spirit convict us on the ways God is moving.

If we continue to pray about it, God will reveal to us what is important.

 

[Anij]

I've read quite a few pages worth of Posts ( though not all) .

The question that I keep coming back to is much more fundamental than " Paul says, Genesis says" ...

If a woman is Called by GOD to the Priesthood ... she prays about it, and is truly being Called ~ who is she to say to God "You can't choose me, not because I would not be a humble, faithful servant to you , but soley because I am a woman"

It is not our place to judge who is Called, provided the Call is true. Only God may judge our hearts.

 

[Anij]

it's not just the trousers , the hair style is manly.

My Hair is down to my waist, and I doubt anyone would call little 5'4 me "manly"



(Though I'm just beginning my journey - I have no desire at all to be a "little man" thank you)

 

[Strong in Him]

Eh...I've been keeping up with this thread for a while, and really, if everyone can't agree wether it's a good thing or not...I think we should just avoid it to be safe. It doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere here (although I feel a lot more informed and aware), so I say at this point all we can do is let the Holy Spirit convict us on the ways God is moving.

If we continue to pray about it, God will reveal to us what is important.

That's true. Because what it all boils down to in the end is; some people stick to their male dominated churches, where women may be allowed certain roles, rejoice that they are keeping Scripture and despair that some churches are content to disaobey it. Others go to churches where women are allowed to exercise their gifts and their calling. They benefit from a woman's ministry and the church grows, because men and women are both serving God as he called them. And women go to a church where they feel free to test out a calling from their Lord and not told "you can't." The second group of people no doubt feel that the first group of people are missing out. So people go to the church that fits best with their interpretation of a couple of Scripture verses.

But then, isn't that true of everything in the Christian life - bar the Gospel?

 

[bliz]

Good way to stick to God's unchangable way. I don't understand why people just don't understand that God doesn't change, so why would he allow something today that has never been allowed throughout all human history?

God himself does not change, but He has a long history of doing things never before done and changing how He interacts with us. With the death of Christ, God's interaction with humans changed completely and our way of salvation became very different.

This also is a prophecy in the book of Zechariah chapter 5, and it shows that in the latter days women would surpass man, and this would be a sign that the last days or at hand and it also would be consisdered wickedness.

Please, where in Zechariah 5 is anything said about woman surpassing man? Or the last days?

 

[Splayd]

I understand the need to be true to scripture which is why I studied it so diligently regarding this particular matter. I'm just curious about these verses that address some of the points raised. Does everyhone here who thinks they're sticking to the bible have church services that run according to this model:

1Co 14:26 Then how is it, brothers? When you come together, each one of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be for building up.
1Co 14:27 If one speaks in a language, let it be by two, or at the most three, and in succession. And let one interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there is no interpreter, let him be silent in a church; and let him speak to himself and to God.
1Co 14:29 And if there are two or three prophets, let them speak, and let the others judge.
1Co 14:30 If a revelation is revealed to another sitting by, let the first be silent.
1Co 14:31 For you may all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be comforted.
1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Co 14:34 Let your women be silent in the churches; for it is not permitted to them to speak, but to be in subjection, as the Law also says.

OR... is it only the last verse that should be applied literally today?
Also - in the model above, which one's the pastor? Apparently it's the one that does the teaching/preaching but I can't tell which one that is in these verses?

Also - when your church gets a new pastor, do you get someone from outside to take over or is it someone from within your congregation that is given the position:

Titus 1:5 For this cause I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed you,
Titus 1:6 if anyone is blameless, husband of one wife, having believing children, not accused of loose behavior, or disobedient.

Or... is it only the bit about being a husband that needs to be considered literally today?

There's a lot more, but that will do for starters.

 

[Colabomb]

I've read quite a few pages worth of Posts ( though not all) .

The question that I keep coming back to is much more fundamental than " Paul says, Genesis says" ...

If a woman is Called by GOD to the Priesthood ... she prays about it, and is truly being Called ~ who is she to say to God "You can't choose me, not because I would not be a humble, faithful servant to you , but soley because I am a woman"

It is not our place to judge who is Called, provided the Call is true. Only God may judge our hearts.

God does not call those whom He does not call.

If he does not call women, He will not call a woman. Regardless of how that Woman Feels.