Federal judge temporarily blocks TX abortion law

[Desk trauma]

Hmm. The ignorant are probably most eloquent when keeping silent.

Ignorant men is a reason for men as a group to step back from the abortion discussion yet the same level of ignorance exhibited by a women become an individual issue rather than a collective one?

 

[Whyayeman]

You've got me!

Perhaps the discussion should be about personal liberty, or the standing of the claim that the unborn are persons.

 

[Desk trauma]

You've got me!

Perhaps the discussion should be about personal liberty, or the standing of the claim that the unborn are persons.

and without the expectation that someone bow out due to others who share the same physical characteristics as them being uninformed.

 

[jayem]

You've got me!

Perhaps the discussion should be about personal liberty, or the standing of the claim that the unborn are persons.

There are 2 aspects to the abortion debate: one moral, and one legal. Those who favor tightly restricting abortion focus on morality. But the personhood of the unborn is the crux of the legal issue. There is no question that nothing in the Constitution states, or even implies, that the unborn are persons in the legal sense. And there is also no question that the 14th Amendment says that a state cannot deprive a person of his/her liberty without due process of law. A state law which in effect prohibits a woman from having a medical procedure done on her own body, with her informed consent, violates her liberty as guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. And it likely violates the 9th Amendment also.

Actually, I agree that terminating a pregnancy for less than health reasons, or if the pregnancy resulted from rape/sexual assault, may be morally suspect. But immorality doesn’t always obligate illegality.

 

[Whyayeman]

But immorality doesn’t always obligate illegality.

I agree. Sin and crime are different concepts. Some version of moral law is the arbiter for the one while the law deals with the other. There have been unfortunate consequences when they have been confused.

In America Prohibition is the historic example. A suggestion that adultery should be made a crime appeared on these forums recently so there is a lesson unlearned by some.

 

[Desk trauma]

The oneupmanship in anti-abortion laws is well underway with the Ohio legislature putting forward a clone of the Texas law but banning all abortion.

 

[Yttrium]

The oneupmanship in anti-abortion laws is well underway with the Ohio legislature putting forward a clone of the Texas law but banning all abortion.

I wouldn't think that would go anywhere in Ohio.

 

[rturner76]

The alcohol and tobacco laws apply to public places. Is it not the same in America?

Not at all. There are variations in some of the states but nationwide it's 21 or over with proof of ID on you ONLY. It would be illegal for a 20 year old to have a glass of egg nog at Christmas. Very strict. And it just leads to a lot of unsupervised binge drinking by teenagers who hide if from their parents.

 

[Belk]

Not at all. There are variations in some of the states but nationwide it's 21 or over with proof of ID on you ONLY. It would be illegal for a 20 year old to have a glass of egg nog at Christmas. Very strict. And it just leads to a lot of unsupervised binge drinking by teenagers who hide if from their parents.

Not in a private residence with parents present.

 

[Yttrium]

Not at all. There are variations in some of the states but nationwide it's 21 or over with proof of ID on you ONLY. It would be illegal for a 20 year old to have a glass of egg nog at Christmas. Very strict. And it just leads to a lot of unsupervised binge drinking by teenagers who hide if from their parents.

I spent a little time researching that yesterday, and the laws are more permissive than I thought.

 

[SimplyMe]

Wow, we don't allow children to eat whatever they want, go to bed whenever they want, smoke whatever they want, drink whatever they want, go to school whenever they want, abuse their bodies however they want, watch whatever they want on television, go wherever they want. We don't prosecute kids the same as adults. But when it comes to life altering surgery when their brains are not fully formed and by golly, they can make that decision. That's fully okay.

No that's child abuse.

"Children" aren't allowed to get "life altering surgery," at least not per the medical standards in the US. In the US, you must be at least 18 to get gender reassignment surgery.

In fact, Kim Petras made news some years ago and still has the distinction of being the "world's youngest" person to have gender reassignment surgery when she managed to fight the system, in Germany, to get the surgery at 16 -- a "title" she still has -- as pretty much every country still requires anyone to be 18 to get that surgery. I'm not aware of any exceptions made in the US that allowed a person to get the surgery before they were 18.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Wow, we don't allow children to eat whatever they want, go to bed whenever they want, smoke whatever they want, drink whatever they want, go to school whenever they want, abuse their bodies however they want, watch whatever they want on television, go wherever they want. We don't prosecute kids the same as adults. But when it comes to life altering surgery when their brains are not fully formed and by golly, they can make that decision. That's fully okay.

No that's child abuse.

No. Bottom surgery cant be done until 18 years old. And, It still none of our business. Unless your child, or you're Transgender.

 

[rturner76]

Not in a private residence with parents present.

That must be a state to state thing. Like I remember kids being able to go into a bar with their parents but not so much where I live. It was only a couple of years ago that my state made it legal for liquor stores to open on Sundays.

 

[Desk trauma]

That must be a state to state thing. Like I remember kids being able to go into a bar with their parents but not so much where I live. It was only a couple of years ago that my state made it legal for liquor stores to open on Sundays.

As an alcohol connoisseur who travels frequently I have run up on all kinds of variations in state laws. The one that stands out is the Indiana law that forbids the sale of cold beer at establishments not allowed to sell liquor, such as gas stations or convenience stores, which was immensely frustrating after working in the heat all day prior to finding out about the laws existence at the only store within a short drive of my lodging.

 

[rturner76]

As an alcohol connoisseur who travels frequently I have run up on all kinds of variations in state laws. The one that stands out is the Indiana law that forbids the sale of cold beer at establishments not allowed to sell liquor, such as gas stations or convenience stores, which was immensely frustrating after working in the heat all day prior to finding out about the laws existence at the only store within a short drive of my lodging.

In my state, they can't even sell beer unless it's 3.2% or lower alcohol. Most don't even bother carrying it.

 

[Desk trauma]

In my state, they can't even sell beer unless it's 3.2% or lower alcohol. Most don't even bother carrying it.

Utah?

 

[Whyayeman]

Ah, but can under 21s legally drink alcoholic beverages in the privacy of home? A glass of wine with their parents for example?

Laws about point of sale and drinking in bars do not cover this.

 

[Desk trauma]

Ah, but can under 21s legally drink alcoholic beverages in the privacy of home? A glass of wine with their parents for example?

Depends on the state, here's a list.

 

[Yttrium]

Depends on the state, here's a list.

So in Alabama, forget about it. In Wyoming, it's party time. Both strongly red states.

 

[Desk trauma]

So in Alabama, forget about it. In Wyoming, it's party time. Both strongly red states.

With different history and relationships with alcohol clearly. I'm no expert on Wyoming but I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the teetotal liquor is the devil southern attitude would fall a bit flat there outside of Mormon circles.