Fearful backslider

[DeerGlow]

Agreed. Romans 9 tells us that we are all, saved and damned alike, created for a purpose. I don't think I have any control over what God has purposed me for, as that purpose has always been eternally decided by Him.

Here's my hope of all hopes...that the Promise in Ezekiel 11 & 36 can STILL be possible for you and for me.

I just don't really see hope for me. I think because I do and say such terrible things and live so evilly that at the end of time I will be shamed and tortured for eternity. I don't want to go to hell but I don't think there are any chances left for me. People say my fear is proof I'm not lost forever, I think it means I know I've gone too far. I feel like when others say "repent and He will forgive you" I have already been abandoned. I would like to hope not but I don't know how to have hope. I feel like I should die so I can stop disgracing the Lord but suicide is a sin and im afraid of going to hell but also I can't stand living in sin and fear.

 

[98cwitr]

I just don't really see hope for me. I think because I do and say such terrible things and live so evilly that at the end of time I will be shamed and tortured for eternity. I don't want to go to hell but I don't think there are any chances left for me. People say my fear is proof I'm not lost forever, I think it means I know I've gone too far. I feel like when others say "repent and He will forgive you" I have already been abandoned. I would like to hope not but I don't know how to have hope. I feel like I should die so I can stop disgracing the Lord but suicide is a sin and im afraid of going to hell but also I can't stand living in sin and fear.

Welcome to a catch 22 that all those who are truly realizing their sin come to be faced with. Total Depravity. You're just now realizing it. Your hope though can be in Christ. It is the devil which tells you you're too far gone...don't listen. I listened to a sermon one time where the preacher was trying to help someone in your very position. The guy asked the pastor "What do I do?! I cannot go on like this." The pastor answered "Pray for God to change your heart." The man did this, and each time reported back to the pastor that it was a failure...God wasn't listening and didn't care to. The pastor said to keep trying...to cry out to God as if your very soul depended on it.

A few weeks later, after hearing nothing, the man returned to the pastor and explained that through many nights of tears and anguish, God finally answered...and that he was assured of his salvation. The pastor went on to explain he even looked like a new person: radiant and happy.

Give it a shot...at worst you're only wasting your time. At best, the Lord will heal your pain!

 

[Kenny'sID]

On all our sins being forgiven already, one need only look at the the prayer we were told to pray as example by Christs himself.

"Forgive us out trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" would not be a necessary part of the prayer if our future sins were already forgiven. And honestly, before someone says that changed after his death on the cross, just as the many other times that claim has been made, I doubt Christ would teach anything that wasn't to always be truth.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Give it a shot...at worst you're only wasting your time. At best, the Lord will heal your pain!

And there you go.

If we all fail to convince you, and you fail to convince yourself you cannot get back in, then go with that, see for yourself. From the way you are talking, it appears to at least be worth that effort for you.

 

[98cwitr]

On all our sins being forgiven already, one need only look at the the prayer we were told to pray as example by Christs himself.

"Forgive us out trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" would not be a necessary part of the prayer if our future sins were already forgiven. And honestly, before someone says that changed after his death on the cross, just as the many other times that claim has been made, I doubt Christ would teach anything that wasn't to always be truth.

Had that exact thought.

 

[DeerGlow]

Welcome to a catch 22 that all those who are truly realizing their sin come to be faced with. Total Depravity. You're just now realizing it. Your hope though can be in Christ. It is the devil which tells you you're too far gone...don't listen. I listened to a sermon one time where the preacher was trying to help someone in your very position. The guy asked the pastor "What do I do?! I cannot go on like this." The pastor answered "Pray for God to change your heart." The man did this, and each time reported back to the pastor that it was a failure...God wasn't listening and didn't care to. The pastor said to keep trying...to cry out to God as if your very soul depended on it.

A few weeks later, after hearing nothing, the man returned to the pastor and explained that through many nights of tears and anguish, God finally answered...and that he was assured of his salvation. The pastor went on to explain he even looked like a new person: radiant and happy.

Give it a shot...at worst you're only wasting your time. At best, the Lord will heal your pain!

Just now realising it? Does that mean I wasn't saved before? I'm just really scared about backsliding, apostasy, and the unpardonable sin. I feel like I produce too much bad fruit (by sinning and being selfish/arrogant/judging)to be a good tree. I frustrate a lot of people because my fears are so deep rooted they're hard to shake I really do want to hear what you have to say I don't want to call you a liar or false teacher so don't take my questions and continued fear that way.

 

[MWood]

Are you preaching universalism here? Sure sounds like it....

And here's the scripture on repentance post resurrection, since you asked for it:

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

Acts 8:22
Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.

Acts 11:18
When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

Acts 20:21
I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Romans 2:4
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Revelation 2:5
Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

I didn't ask about repentance, but for scripture that commands us to ask God to forgive us our sins.
Repent/repentance is all over the Bible, as you have shown.

 

[98cwitr]

Just now realising it? Does that mean I wasn't saved before? I'm just really scared about backsliding, apostasy, and the unpardonable sin. I feel like I produce too much bad fruit (by sinning and being selfish/arrogant/judging)to be a good tree. I frustrate a lot of people because my fears are so deep rooted they're hard to shake I really do want to hear what you have to say I don't want to call you a liar or false teacher so don't take my questions and continued fear that way.

Think about it like this: In God's eyes, you've either always been saved from eternity or you never will be. From an omniscient view, there is no such thing as "backsliding," because the saved have always been and will always be saved. And who's view matters more? Mans or God's?

 

[98cwitr]

I didn't ask about repentance, but for scripture that commands us to ask God to forgive us our sins.
Repent/repentance is all over the Bible, as you have shown.

Lord's prayer.

+

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

 

[MWood]

On all our sins being forgiven already, one need only look at the the prayer we were told to pray as example by Christs himself.

"Forgive us out trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" would not be a necessary part of the prayer if our future sins were already forgiven. And honestly, before someone says that changed after his death on the cross, just as the many other times that claim has been made, I doubt Christ would teach anything that wasn't to always be truth.

You need to realize that Jesus was only "sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." He was talking to His followers. What he was teaching was to get them back into Covenant relationship with God. All that He taught is good for our learning, but it is not all for us to do. We had no part in what He was teaching.
This is where "rightly dividing the word of truth" comes in.
Actually the Four Gospels are the last four books of the Old Testament. Think on this for a while before you respond.

 

[DeerGlow]

Think about it like this: In God's eyes, you've either always been saved from eternity or you never will be. From an omniscient view, there is no such thing as "backsliding," because the saved have always been and will always be saved. And who's view matters more? Mans or God's?

Of course God's matters more, it's just hard for me to learn what the bible really says He thinks about me because I'm easily confused and misled and sometimes I'm so afraid I can't read my bible because I'm afraid it'll prove me condemned. I know the bible is inerrant and can't contradict itself, but I don't know how to reconcile and take passages that appear to conflict together.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You need to realize that Jesus was only "sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." He was talking to His followers. What he was teaching was to get them back into Covenant relationship with God. All that He taught is good for our learning, but it is not all for us to do. We had no part in what He was teaching.
This is where "rightly dividing the word of truth" comes in.
Actually the Four Gospels are the last four books of the Old Testament. Think on this for a while before you respond.

So we don't need to make an ongoing practice of asking forgiveness of sin?

 

[MWood]

So we don't need to make an ongoing practice of asking forgiveness of sin?

Whoop dar it is. Why would you, when your sins were forgiven 2000 years ago?

 

[98cwitr]

Of course God's matters more, it's just hard for me to learn what the bible really says He thinks about me because I'm easily confused and misled and sometimes I'm so afraid I can't read my bible because I'm afraid it'll prove me condemned. I know the bible is inerrant and can't contradict itself, but I don't know how to reconcile and take passages that appear to conflict together.

If you havent done so, read it cover to cover. There's a whole story there and it's all related.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Whoop dar it is. Why would you, when your sins were forgiven 2000 years ago?

and dere dat is.

1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.…

So just confess our sin? or does that along with what the Lords prayer states, give anyone the idea that we might just need to ask forgiveness?...Does me. Example, when the Catholic say the part.."for I have sinned", do you get the idea they are seeking forgiveness? I do.

Since I suspect the verse will be scrutinized, even though it does just say "confess", we confess for "forgiveness" so in reality, the term "confess" in context of the verse IS asking for forgiveness.

But wait, why would we even need to confess our sins, if they were already forgiven? What would be the point?

How bout this.

Galatians 5:19-21King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Then you are also saying since we are preforgiven we can do those things the Bible specifically forbids and be fine? Yes, that is precisely what you are saying, but then I will get the, "no it's not really that way" and I'll be ready for that.

Personally, if I did those things, even just once, I'd want to be sure I got back in Gods good graces, ask forgiveness, and stop doing them. But you are actually stating I don't have to, I can do those things if I like, don't worry about asking for forgiveness because all my sins are already covered. Problem with that is, it doesn't get God what he wants from us...to be obediant Christians.

Yeah, think I'll stick with what the Lords prayer/Christ tells us to do, not men.

 

[DeerGlow]

And there you go.

If we all fail to convince you, and you fail to convince yourself you cannot get back in, then go with that, see for yourself. From the way you are talking, it appears to at least be worth that effort for you.

It's worth the effort certainly but I'm scared He has already rejected me. I am so scared.

 

[DeerGlow]

If you havent done so, read it cover to cover. There's a whole story there and it's all related.

I'm so afraid all I will find is confirmation I am to become condemned. I've been so sinful it seems o only get worse and worse.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It's worth the effort certainly but I'm scared He has already rejected me. I am so scared.

As they say, we never know until we try.

 

[98cwitr]

I'm so afraid all I will find is confirmation I am to become condemned. I've been so sinful it seems o only get worse and worse.

Why be afraid? Do you think your fear will change your fate?

 

[DeerGlow]

Why be afraid? Do you think your fear will change your fate?

Could you not be afraid if you were nearly certain of eternal fire, loneliness, and maggots for you?