Fear vs. Love

[Idioteque]

I'm extraordinarily tired, so this will be shorter than I'd like.........

but do you often find yourself far more tied up in fear of God than love for Him?

I accept Christ as best I can. And I defend and love my God. But I've noticed that when I confess my sins (often deliberate, pre-meditated sins), I usually find myself doing it much more out of fear than love and apology.

I've got GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) and am racked with worry toward my salvation, but have been improving in that sense and praying to strengthen my conviction and will. I wonder, however, since I don't feel as overwhelmed by pure love for God as others seem to, if I'm truly forgiven and saved.

Thoughts? Anyone? Beuller?

 

[Wisdom's Child]

It actually sounds to me like you are very close to the right path.
The Bible is literally full of those who expressed fear of God, until they heard God's voice tell them "Fear Not, for I am with you".
At that point fear becomes love.

I suggest reading the Psalms and Proverbs.
Seek out Wisdom and Understanding in prayer.

There are many who express Love of God, but without Fear they do not follow the path of Righteousness.

Psalms 2:10-12
Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Psalms 25:12-15
What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.
The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
Mine eyes are ever toward the LORD; for he shall pluck my feet out of the net.

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 2:3-9
Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly.
He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.
Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path.

 

[Andrew_26]

I'm extraordinarily tired, so this will be shorter than I'd like.........

but do you often find yourself far more tied up in fear of God than love for Him?

I accept Christ as best I can. And I defend and love my God. But I've noticed that when I confess my sins (often deliberate, pre-meditated sins), I usually find myself doing it much more out of fear than love and apology.

I've got GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) and am racked with worry toward my salvation, but have been improving in that sense and praying to strengthen my conviction and will. I wonder, however, since I don't feel as overwhelmed by pure love for God as others seem to, if I'm truly forgiven and saved.

Thoughts? Anyone? Beuller?

Only to say that some times I feel the same way ---actually it has been a lot lately. I think it is the hardest part of faith to believe that God is worthy of our love (I know thats wrong on a lot of levels bit its how we all look at love)

If you believe that God is worthy of your love and trust him as best you can I think the only way to deepen that is to ask him to help you strengthen the relationship---no good relationship can work any other way

 

[Andrew_26]

It actually sounds to me like you are very close to the right path.
The Bible is literally full of those who expressed fear of God, until they heard God's voice tell them "Fear Not, for I am with you".
At that point fear becomes love.
QUOTE]

I always liked to think that the "Fear" which God wished the people to have of him was respect only

 

[Lpe04]

The Bible says that the moment you accept Christ you are saved. I think you should get past your salvation issue as this is usually the first base that people must get past before they can more on with God (or else you will always be working for yourself and out of fear rather than love, and you won't be able to truly thank God and Christ for what has been freely given to you). Read especially the book of Romans, as this one clearly marks out your salvation and is foundational.

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and beleive in your heart God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Try reading Neil Anderson "Who I am in Christ" and the "Bondage Breaker". Another good one I am reading right now is Charles Swindoll "The Grace Awakening". It took me awhile to get past my fear of my salvation, but now that I have, it is great! Remember, look to the Lord Almighty and He will see you through it. Focus on HIs Word and what He says about you, and truly take it to heart and believe it.

At my old site I have a list of all the Scripture from the Gospel of John through 2 Thessalonians that outline your salvation (and there is quite a bit!) that was complete the moment you accepted (believed in) Christ. The Lord showed me to do this a while back ago and it helped me immensly. But like with all of God's Word, you can't just read it intellectually, you need to believe it in the heart for it to take affect and have an impact on your thinking. The link is http://www.onlinecomputerdeals.com/salvation.html

God Bless

 

[Idioteque]

Thanks, gang. Especially Lpe - much appreciated.

Ya see, in terms of salvation, there are passages that make me extremely nervous. Like this one:

47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,


See, I read this verse and can't help but read "If you're sinning, you'd better stop or you'll go to hell."


Am I off-base here?

 

[holo]

I can relate to a lot of the OP, and I can promise there is hope!

in that sense and praying to strengthen my conviction and will. I wonder, however, since I don't feel as overwhelmed by pure love for God as others seem to, if I'm truly forgiven and saved.

Your salvation is your identity, not your feelings.

You are forgiven,
you are clean, you are righteous, you are perfect, you are HIS, you are a child of God, you have been reconciled with your creator, you have NO GUILT, you are pure, you are most precious to Him, He IS your righteousness, you are in His hands, your name is written in the book of life, you have a place in heaven, your sins have been paid for, the veil has been torn. It is finished.

I used to struggle a lot with anxiety, and it would pollute my relationship with God. It went hand in hand with the legalism I was suffering under in many forms. It's telling that my anxiety didn't go away until I finally gave up on christianity altogether - that's when I could finally learn that it depends on HIM, not on ME. It could finally dawn on me what grace is, and that it is by grace I am saved and secure in my everyday walk. But for this to sink in, I almost had to be "heartwashed" by a few good friends who kept reminding me that I'm loved, forgiven etc, the whole list I started this post with.

He is more patient than you will ever be.
Sit back, relax, let your emotions come and go, rest in Him. He will not hold anything from you and He will never ever cast off anyone who comes to Him. He will bear your burdens, lay them down as you get the ability to do so, stone after stone, fear after fear, panic attack after panic attack. He will never let you go. He will not judge you - on the contrary, He has already aquitted you. All these other things, like love for you neighbour, will come and flow naturally as you learn to know how much He loves you. You can not share a love you haven't recieved yourself, so the first step to anything is insight into righteousness, that is, His righteousness which is now also your righteousness.

You are His and He will not let you go.

 

[stone]

our father left a book of instructions for us to follow, with several messages. He loves his children

 

[joyfulthanks]

Perhaps it will help you to know that you are not alone in your struggle. Some great men and women of God have struggled with the same kinds of issues.

One I can think of is John Bunyan, the author of the Pilgrim's Progress - one of the greatest pieces of Christian literature in the English language. Bunyan was at one point imprisoned for preaching Christ. Here's a brief excerpt from his biography that talks about his fears:

"The four years following his marriage were the period of the intense spiritual struggles which Bunyan records in the autobiography, written many years later, entitled Grace Abounding. It was this experience which made it possible for him to write The Pilgrim's Progress. His pathway to the New Life was the same that the Pilgrim trod. He knew the Valley of Humiliation, and the Valley of the Shadow of Death; he had lain in the dungeons of Doubting Castle; and he finally overcame Giant Despair. He felt himself to be a great sinner and constantly stood in fear of the wrath of God, yet many of the sins of which he accuses himself seem at least venial. One of his weaknesses was a fondness for playing the game of cat, especially on Sunday afternoons. He himself tells us how he overcame this: "But the same day, as I was in the midst of a game at cat, and having struck it one blow from the hole, just as I was about to strike it a second time, a voice did suddenly dart from heaven into my soul which said, 'Wilt thou leave thy sins and go to heaven, or have thy sins and go to hell?'" Another worldliness was a delight in ringing the bells in the tower of Elstow Church. His conscience troubled him in the matter, and he gave up the practice, yet not without reluctance. "I would go to the steeple-house and look on, though I durst not ring, ... but quickly after I began to think how if one of the bells should fall? So after this I would yet go to see them ring, but would not go any farther than the steeple-door; but then it came into my head, how if the steeple itself should fall? And this thought ... did continually so shake my mind that I durst not stand at the steeple-door any longer, but was forced to flee for fear the steeple should fall upon my head."
(Taken from http://www.wholesomewords.org/biography/bbunyan4.html)

Bunyan eventually overcame his overwhelming despair, fears, and doubts through God's gracious help. Keep seeking the Lord in the best way that you know how. Never give up. God will meet you where you are and give you the grace you need.

With love in Christ,
Grace

 

[whitedove7]

PERFECT LOVE CASTS OUT FEAR (I John 4:16)​

We need to understand fear (our enemy) as we get to know the Love of God. The Bible is very clear that we discern both good and evil (Hebrews 5:14). I found that when people are in fear, it's because they have not been loved or unable to receive love. And it's usually because they don’t' think anyone could love them because of all the things they've done in their life. We need to understand as believers, that when we are saved, ALL our sins are forgiven, yesterday's, today's and tomorrows. This is why Christians have guilt and condemnation, they don't really "believe" they've been forgiven, it's evidenced if they cannot forgive themselves. You ask what unforgiveness has to do with fear? It is the direct opposite of faith (love). Forgiveness is God's love. Jesus came so that we can receive forgiveness and have it to give! He came so we could receive God's love and walk in fellowship with him and with others. Fear will prevent good things from taking place in your life! (Isaiah 35:4-6)



Whenever love is absent fear is always present. They cannot dwell at the exact same time, you will have one or the other at ALL times. We cannot have light and darkness at the same time. We cannot be up and down at the same time. Neither can we have fear and love at the same time.



We may have fear, then love, then fear then love, but that's why we go up and down so much as believers! When we fear, we are in doubt, when we love, we are in faith.



Faith vs Fear:



Now Faith is substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1) Fear is the evidence of things not hoped for the evidence of things not seen. You need to understand that the enemy counterfeits everything that is of God. You need to understand that fear (the devil's faith) is the direct opposite of God's love (faith). Pastor Henry Write quotes: "Fear and Faith are equal in this dimension. Both project into the future and both demand to be filled." We need to choose which one we will live under. We will live under one or the other at ALL times!



I have found countless times that when a person has fear, they are not in love. The Bible tells us that "Perfect Love casts out all fear." (I John 4:16). In my life, when I begin to "feel" fear, I immediately recognize what is happening, that the spirit is trying to take me again which means I'm not at that moment receiving God's love. So I would pray, "God sorry for fearing, and I receive your love right now." I take responsibility, confess my sin of fear, and begin to receive God's love. And within minutes the fear is completely gone! Every time, without failure! I may "feel" it while I'm saying this, but afterwards, the feeling leaves because God is the one who frees me… my job is to recognize and confess, his job is to do the rest.



Fear comes in all forms, not just fear of heights or closed in areas. It can be dreading something, worrying, frustrations, confusion, anger, depression, lying, discontentment, and so on. Fear is the devil's faith and it is apparent we operate in this faith than God's. Anything that is not of faith (love and truth) is sin. (Romans 14:23)


Satan's job is to keep you from your purpose and so what a better way then create fear in your life. He projects things in yoru mind and you believe them. A person will believe the lie and start to worry. Then that person is not able to function and do the things the Lord has called them to do. Fear causes a person to shut down.

Conclusion: God's love cast out fear. 2 Timothy 1:7 fear is a spirit and fear brings torment. So the cure is 1 John 4:6 Perfect (His Love) cast (removes) the fear.
This helps you see your relationship with God more clearly. If you are filled with love, you will have no fear.

"Knowing" about God's love and being "filled" with God's love are two entirely different things. See the scripture below:



In John 6:26 Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves and were filled."




Let me pray for you! Father, you have given us the authority to cast out devils in Jesus name. And I believe this. Right now, spirit of fear leave this dear saint in Jesus name. Go and never occupy this person again. Father I ask you to fill my friend up with your peace, joy, righteousness, goodness, love, patience, endurance, and faith. Let your love fill them from the top of their heads to the tip of their toes. Casting out all fear and torment. Help them to receive your love and be ever filled with your love. And if by chance they begin to feel fear, let them remember to simply tell it to Go! I ask you to equip my friend now, in Jesus name."

 

[Idioteque]

All wonderful posts, and I thank all of you for the time. Praise God for y'all.......

However, it's phrases like these that trouble me:

'Wilt thou leave thy sins and go to heaven, or have thy sins and go to hell?'

I have trouble taking that any other way....... are the sinner's future sins forgiven? Does any pre-meditated sin make me hellbound? Am I commanded to stop sinning now to avoid hell, rather than to serve God's purposes?

 

[joyfulthanks]

All wonderful posts, and I thank all of you for the time. Praise God for y'all.......

However, it's phrases like these that trouble me:



I have trouble taking that any other way....... are the sinner's future sins forgiven? Does any pre-meditated sin make me hellbound? Am I commanded to stop sinning now to avoid hell, rather than to serve God's purposes?

Dear Idioteque,

I think you have to look at that quote in the light of where Bunyan was in his life at the time. He really struggled with something the Catholics call "scruples" - a very overly sensitive conscience that leads one to despair. Early in his life (when that happened), Bunyan had a tendency to see everything in stark black and white, leaving little room for the mercy of our merciful God. This led him to fear, doubt, and despair. Later, as I mentioned, he was delivered from this terrible bondage.

I guess I would sum it up this way. None of us is without sin. The Bible says that if we say we are without sin, we lie. God showed His mercy for us in Christ. We are to live out of the new nature that He's given us a life of repentance and faith. If we sin, we are to repent and confess it "If we confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." God's mercy is bigger than our sin.

With love in Christ,
Grace

 

[Maharg]

In my life, when I begin to "feel" fear, I immediately recognize what is happening, that the spirit is trying to take me again which means I'm not at that moment receiving God's love. So I would pray, "God sorry for fearing, and I receive your love right now." I take responsibility, confess my sin of fear, and begin to receive God's love. And within minutes the fear is completely gone! Every time, without failure! I may "feel" it while I'm saying this, but afterwards, the feeling leaves because God is the one who frees me… my job is to recognize and confess, his job is to do the rest.

Great post, whitedove, but I just wanted to note that feeling fear is not a sin. In Luke's Gospel it says that Jesus' sweat was like drops of blood as he prayed at Gethsemane. This is an indication of someone under intense stress (i.e. fear). I believe that fear only becomes a sin when we listen to what it is telling us.

Maharg

 

[joyfulthanks]

Dear Idoiteque,

I read Psalm 103 during my prayer time this morning, and thought of you. Note especially the character of God, and how mercifully He deals with those who fear Him:

Psalm 103 (NKJV)

"Bless the Lord, O my soul; And all that is within me, bless His holy name!"Bless the Lord, O my soul, And forget not all His benefits: Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases, Who redeems your life from destruction, Who crowns you with lovingkindness and tender mercies, Who satisfies your mouth with good things, So that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s. The Lord executes righteousness And justice for all who are oppressed. He made known His ways to Moses, His acts to the children of Israel. The Lord is merciful and gracious, Slow to anger, and abounding in mercy. He will not always strive with us, Nor will He keep His anger forever. He has not dealt with us according to our sins, Nor punished us according to our iniquities. For as the heavens are high above the earth, So great is His mercy toward those who fear Him; As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us. As a father pities his children, So the Lord pities those who fear Him. For He knows our frame; He remembers that we are dust. As for man, his days are like grass; As a flower of the field, so he flourishes. For the wind passes over it, and it is gone, And its place remembers it no more. But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting On those who fear Him, And His righteousness to children’s children, To such as keep His covenant, And to those who remember His commandments to do them. The Lord has established His throne in heaven, And His kingdom rules over all. Bless the Lord, you His angels, Who excel in strength, who do His word, Heeding the voice of His word. Bless the Lord, all you His hosts, You ministers of His, who do His pleasure. Bless the Lord, all His works, In all places of His dominion. Bless the Lord, O my soul!"

With love in Christ,
Grace

 

[dave007]

Unfortunatly I sense fear too. As said above it's not a sin and if You confess because You fear going to hell, then it's still a good canfession. Main thing is to feel guilt. Not just confess and do the same sins the next day.
Although fear may lead to heaven I try to get rid of my fear by doing less sins.
That way there is absolutely nothing to fear