Fear and the Christian Message

[bhsmte]

I'm not suggesting that children ought to quiver in terror at the sound of their parents' voices.
There should be a loving relationship between parents and their children.
However, there must be respect, as well.
Everyone is happier when the rules are understood...

Agree.

When fear is used, respect will not follow anyway.

 

[TheBarrd]

No, I would call that simple respect for the rules.

When I use the word "fear" as a strategy people use to motivate others, I am talking about the emotional response that is triggered in an individual that occurs when fear is the main tool.

Fear is a form of emotional abuse, which takes it toll on the person that is receiving it and eventually causes a complete lack of respect for the person delivering it.

With this, I am in complete agreement.

 

[TheBarrd]

I'm remembering a specific incident when my middle boy was about 15. He was a "cool kid". At that time, his crowd were all into "the occult". Needless to say, this caused a few "discussions".
Anyway, one night I was awakened at about 3a.m. He and a bunch of his friends had collected every cross they could find, (including a couple of my necklaces), and had hung them upside down around the backyard. They had a fire going, which they were feeding with pages from an old Bible, and they were chanting.
It seems they were trying to raise a demon...

Tell me...how would you have handled this situation?

 

[bhsmte]

I'm remembering a specific incident when my middle boy was about 15. He was a "cool kid". At that time, his crowd were all into "the occult". Needless to say, this caused a few "discussions".
Anyway, one night I was awakened at about 3a.m. He and a bunch of his friends had collected every cross they could find, (including a couple of my necklaces), and had hung them upside down around the backyard. They had a fire going, which they were feeding with pages from an old Bible, and they were chanting.
It seems they were trying to raise a demon...

Tell me...how would you have handled this situation?

The first thing I would do, is explore the motivation behind why they did this and go from there.

 

[TheBarrd]

The first thing I would do, is explore the motivation behind why they did this and go from there.

They figured that, if they summoned a demon, it would be in their power, and have to give them whatever they wanted.
They were all going to be millionaire rock stars, with a harem of beautiful women worshiping at their feet...

 

[bhsmte]

They figured that, if they summoned a demon, it would be in their power, and have to give them whatever they wanted.
They were all going to be millionaire rock stars, with a harem of beautiful women worshiping at their feet...

I was looking at peeling back more layers and finding out, why they sought this as legitimate. How old where they again?

 

[TheBarrd]

Bear in mind that I was recently widowed and working hard to get the education I needed to properly care for seven kids all by myself.
Also, try to remember that I am a Christian, and although I gave my children the right to choose for themselves, this was still a shocking disrespect for me and for my faith...

I'm tired, it's been a long day, I have another long day of work ahead of me the next day...and I'm angry.

 

[TheBarrd]

I was looking at peeling back more layers and finding out, why they sought this as legitimate. How old where they again?

Around my son's age...he was 15.

 

[bhsmte]

Bear in mind that I was recently widowed and working hard to get the education I needed to properly care for seven kids all by myself.
Also, try to remember that I am a Christian, and although I gave my children the right to choose for themselves, this was still a shocking disrespect for me and for my faith...

I'm tired, it's been a long day, I have another long day of work ahead of me the next day...and I'm angry.

One thing to consider. Typically, it is those with certain religious beliefs that take demons (the devil) seriously.

 

[bhsmte]

Around my son's age...he was 15.

At that age, kids can do some crazy things.

 

[TheBarrd]

At that age, kids can do some crazy things.

Yeah...I kinda noticed that.
This kid was the third of seven little darlings.
Notice my hair in my picture...there is more silver than gold in those thinning tresses...
Now, how d'ya suppose that happened??

 

[bhsmte]

Yeah...I kinda noticed that.
This kid was the third of seven little darlings.
Notice my hair in my picture...there is more silver than gold in those thinning tresses...
Now, how d'ya suppose that happened??

I understand.

Don't blame the silver on the kids though, stress has nothing to do with going grey.

 

[TheBarrd]

One thing to consider. Typically, it is those with certain religious beliefs that take demons (the devil) seriously.

You have spoken with me enough to know that I am very serious about my faith.
Of course, I took my kids to church when they were little...and yes, we prayed at home.
As they grew older, of course, if they objected, I did not force them.
I only ever had two to object...this one, and his over-sexed older sister. I believe she was in juvenile detention at the time.
You must understand...their Dad's sudden and unexpected death was a huge blow to all of us...

 

[bhsmte]

You have spoken with me enough to know that I am very serious about my faith.
Of course, I took my kids to church when they were little...and yes, we prayed at home.
As they grew older, of course, if they objected, I did not force them.
I only ever had two to object...this one, and his over-sexed older sister. I believe she was in juvenile detention at the time.
You must understand...their Dad's sudden and unexpected death was a huge blow to all of us...

Makes perfect sense.

 

[TheBarrd]

Makes perfect sense.

There is a happy ending.
As adults, they both came back to God...

 

[Cearbhall]

There are some who keep asking me to deliver a concept of Christianity without fear.

I find a message of constructive, logical fear to be much more attractive than close-minded anger and preaching.

 

[juvenissun]

Are you using the biblical definition of fear here? Because this makes no sense to me, and describes and unhealthy relationship between the parents and child if you are using the modern definition of fear.

The fear I meant may be the feeling when you are interviewed for your career-determine job. Or may be the feeling when you are facing a 50/50 curable illness. "Afraid" is not a bad alternative word for it.

 

[quatona]

Because children are naturally curious,

Yes, that´s their very job, and a full-time job at that. Children are in desperate, vital need of getting to know how reality works.

and will get into things that could hurt them. Not too long ago there was a child found, floating in the neighbor's pool. Her parents are good parents, with three more children. Mom turned her back long enough to take clothes out of the washing machine and put them in the dryer. A very tragic situation.
Kids will run out into the street, or climb into someone's old refrigerator, or get into kitchen drawers...or any number of things you never thought of.

Ok. Now you have told me some tragic stories about stuff that happened or could happen to children.
You have, however, not given any reason why and how fearing their fathers is the only or preferable solution, or any at all.

I´m particularly intrigued because one of the arguments I dealt with in my post was: Fear needn´t be instilled on children, they have it naturally. Here you give me plenty of examples where children run into problems because they had no fear of the pool, the fridge, the car, the knife ("or any number of things you never thought of").

I learned when my first little boy was just a year old. I left him with my mother at the airport where we were waiting for my uncle's plane so that I could take his new baby sister to the ladies lounge to nurse her...when I got back, he was gone.
Thank God he had only wandered into the men's lounge, and was curled up asleep with his bottle...but you can't even imagine the terror of that sickening moment...my baby...lost in an international airport!

Interesting story, but I am still missing the argument or explanation how fearing one´s father would be the only, best, preferable solution, or any solution at all.

After that, as much as I hated it, I got one of those baby leash thingies...

I´m not sure what this choice has to do with children fearing their parents. Care to elaborate?

It is the parents who are responsible for the child's behavior.

Now, that´s a common place I can totally agree with. It just doesn´t answer the question or support your view.

 

[bhsmte]

There is a happy ending.
As adults, they both came back to God...

Glad to hear it worked out.

By the way, very nice picture.

 

[Paulos23]

The fear I meant may be the feeling when you are interviewed for your career-determine job. Or may be the feeling when you are facing a 50/50 curable illness. "Afraid" is not a bad alternative word for it.

Still close to the modern definition, and not something I would want a child of mine to experience for long periods.

Biblical fear (I have been told by my bible studying wife) was more like divine awe then fear. And even that I wouldn't want my child feeling towards me. Respect, yes. Trust, yes. But fear and awe are not, IMO, a healthy part of a child's emotions to their parents.