Fatima Shrine....

[Christy4Christ]

I'm with you PeterPaul...

 

[Aaron-Aggie]

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=46905

Code: ZE04010120

Date: 2004-01-01

What Is Happening in Fatima?; Death in Burundi

Building Project Raises Eyebrows

By Delia Gallagher

ROME, JAN. 1, 2004 (Zenit.org).- Controversy has broken out over the construction of a new building near the Shrine of Our Lady of Fatima in Portugal.

Several Web sites devoted to news about Fatima have expressed outrage at the possibility that the new building might be used for interreligious purposes.

"Fatima to Become Inter-faith Shrine" headlined the Nov. 1 online dispatch of English-language Portugal News.

In the report, the rector of the shrine, Monsignor Luciano Gomes Paulo Guerra, says, "The future of Fatima, or the adoration of God and his mother at this holy shrine, must pass through the creation of a shrine where different religions can mingle."

The head of the Leiria-Fatima Diocese, Bishop Serafim de Sousa Ferreira e Silva, faxed me a three-page statement written in Portuguese (I had it unofficially translated) by the rector of the shrine, dated Dec. 28.

The letter resumes the news published by Portugal News, including Monsignor Guerra's statement that the shrine would become a place "where different religions can mingle."

According to the letter, the rector has been inundated by correspondence due to this "sensationalist news."

The rector clarifies: "God willing, a religious space, will begin to be constructed very shortly, and though it is the presumption of some journalists that it will resemble a stadium, it will in fact be a church, with seating for 9,000; it will be exclusively destined to be a place of Catholic worship, located not next to the current basilica, but between the Cruz Alta and a national road and, when opportune, ... can receive pilgrims of other convictions who wish to fraternally partake in our way of prayer."

Regarding the controversy surrounding the building, the rector mentions specifically Father Nicholas Gruner, a Canadian priest who runs The Fatima Crusader, a quarterly newsletter.

"It is our conviction," says Monsignor Guerra, "that the article in Portugal News has been guided by some members of the group led by Father Gruner, a priest who finds himself in an irregular canonical situation, who persists in his crusade in favor of the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, according to the secret of Fatima (although it has been said and re-said that this consecration has already occurred) and who distributed pamphlets during our October conference against the realization and intentions of the conference."

Father Gruner was suspended "a divinis" by the Vatican in 1996 -- meaning he is relieved of his priestly functions, primarily administering the sacraments. He continues to take a critical stance toward John Paul II's vision of ecumenism, as evidenced by a 2000 document called, "We Resist You to Your Face" -- the You referring to the Pope.

The conference to which Father Guerra refers was held Oct. 10-12 and sponsored by the Sanctuary of Fatima, entitled, "The Present of Man -- The Future of God: The Place of Sanctuaries in Relation to the Sacred."

Conferees included Archbishop Michael Fitzgerald, president of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue; Cardinal José da Cruz Policarpo, patriarch of Lisbon; Bishop Silva; Father Jacques Dupuis, professor of theology at Rome's Gregorian University; and Monsignor Guerra.

On the third day of the conference the floor was opened to representatives of Hindu, Buddhist, Judaic and Islamic religions. Orthodox and Anglican representatives also spoke.

During the conference no mention was made of the construction of a new shrine.

When I recently spoke to Archbishop Fitzgerald in Rome, he said he was surprised that the news of the building had caused such consternation.

"As far as I know, there are no plans that the building is designed specifically for inter-faith purposes," the archbishop said. "We recognize that Fatima is a place of pilgrimage for many religions." But he added that the shrine nonetheless retains its Catholic identity.

"It was the Pope himself who said in Assisi in October 1986 that we are all pilgrims together," continued Archbishop Fitzgerald. "As I said at the conference in Fatima, we must learn to journey together, for if we drift apart we do ourselves harm, but if we walk together we can help one another to reach the goal that God has set for us."

Monsignor Guerra's statement concurs with Archbishop Fitzgerald's sentiments, as most of it is taken up with an explanation of the importance of interreligious dialogue.

The rector of the shrine contends that the Fatima apparitions were exhortations to ecumenical dialogue. His statement says that the Virgin Mary knew that her choice of the site in Portugal would one day be understood as a deliberate association with the daughter of the Islamic prophet Mohammed (whose name was Fatima).

Monsignor Guerra further suggests that in the Fatima apparitions there are "at least two implicit calls to the exercise of the spirit of dialogue with persons of other convictions."

In the first and third apparitions, he said, the Angel of Peace lies prostrate on the ground in prayer. In the third apparition, Communion under the species of bread is given to the oldest seer, while the two younger, Francisco and Jacinta, receive Communion for the first time under the species of the wine.

Since the practice of receiving Communion under both species has fallen out of wide use in the Latin-rite Catholic Church, but not in the Orthodox Churches, "the message of the Angel of Peace contains an exhortation to ecumenical dialogue with those Churches separated from Rome for a thousand years," writes Monsignor Guerra.

The angel's prostration in prayer "has connotations for any religious confession," and recalls that "all human beings are God's creatures and loved by him, and that with such prayer we can maintain serious contact with other religions, such as agnostics and even atheists."

What started out as a debate over a building seems to mask a larger question of the ecumenical work of the Catholic Church as a whole, and Fatima in particular.

Father Gruner is quoted as saying, "The Fatima message is specifically directed at the Catholic Church." Monsignor Guerra would probably concur.

The question remains, however, just what the Church is called to do with that message.

 

[Toney]

Additional thought on this topic may be found at:

Mother of All the Living

Peace be with you.

 

[Michelina]

Additional thought on this topic may be found at:

Mother of All the Living
Peace be with you.

Excellent Article. (Very Short, too.) I do think that Our Blessed Mother may be instrumental in bringing all the people of the world together. That's what Mothers do.

 

[Christy4Christ]

Oh goodie then we will be one big happy family

 

[Toney]

Charity

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

It never has. Interestingly, the Conference of Bishops of (former) Yugoslavia which would have made such a decision, not Rome, was ready to pronounce on Medugorje in 1991. Before they could do so the war broke out.

I am not a defender of Medugorje, per se. Just of the truth. I dislike reading posts that make a declarative statement when the writer has no idea what they are talking about. There is a lot of that around CF.

Regarding Fr Gruner. He is under a divinis suspension and considered materially schismatic. I take no position on him, these are the facts. If someone wants to learn about Fatima, personally I would suggest Fr Robert Fox's apostolate.

Toney-

I am sorry for stirring up dissension-- but I DO KNOW what I'm talking about- at least about this. You can disagree and I'm okay with that, but please don't imply that I am uninformed. The subject of Medjugorje has been one of much study, prayer, and spiritual direction for me- it is not just because I don't like it! I admit my tone was a bit outta line- but I am not just a person with a bone to pick- but believe that Medjugorje is actually harmful to the Faith, and responded strongly, as I have strong feelings about it. I am passionate about obedience and submission to the Church in all things, particularly in areas where our sensibilities are offended. (By which I am talking about me and not anybody else)

Here is the best article I have found:
http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/medjugorjeRICK.html

Peace-- I will not respond any more, as I can not trust myself to do so in a detatched way about this.

 

[Benedicta00]

Shannon,

Unless Medjugori was condemned in the last year, I think Toney is right. No one is saying that the visions are authentic, just that the Church has not condemned them out right.

 

[GinooKo]

This is an outrage! No wonder Protestants think we are trying to make a global religion! Makes me want to go Traditionalist! I won't, but I will be against this.

I know what you mean. I was raised in pre-Vatican II and I'm trying very hard to accept the changes.

 

[Toney]

Unless Medjugori was condemned in the last year, I think Toney is right. No one is saying that the visions are authentic, just that the Church has not condemned them out right.

I defer judgement on Medugorje to the Bishiop of Mostar (Bosnia) and will accede to his authority. Eventually, the Church will either confer approbation or condemn it. My opinion on the apparitions in Medugorje is of little value, although I have been there (nine times) and know the visionaries personally, and certainly not worth debating in this forum. I do not presume to know better on this issue than you, my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Private revelation is just that. As I wrote in Mother of All the Living , Catholics are free to believe or not to believe in them; apparitions are not Loci Theologici; they contribute nothing to the Deposit of Faith.

One of the methods used by the Church to judge apparitions is by their fruit. Our Lady brought an entire people into the Holy Church at Guadalupe and birthed a Catholic nation, Mexico. I certainly do not presume to second guess her, either.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Unless Medjugori was condemned in the last year, I think Toney is right. No one is saying that the visions are authentic, just that the Church has not condemned them out right.

Since the visions began they have been condemned by the local Bishops..... yet the whole outfit continues to act in disobedience to the Bishop. It is long, but the article is really worth reading-- it talks about "apparitions"- appealing to both traditionalists and charismatics-- in order to make us more likely to be disobedient to our local Bishops--- and that if the next Pope is the one prophesized by a few canonized Saints- the "apparitions" may be able to get both extremes to declare him the "anti- Christ" and to urge people to put their faith in the seers-- rather than in the Church and Her officials....


Toney, what can I say?? Peace be unto you!

We do. judge by fruit- and those in Medjugorje have acted disobediently to their Bishop from the outset. This is my same argument against Bayside. We also know that an approved mystic from Fatima has declared that it is NOT Mary appearing- her address is in the article and one may write her and get more from her. Who to trust? Seers who get paid for their speaking appearances-- or a cloistered nun? Who is most closely imitating the virtues of Our Lady?

 

[Christy4Christ]

I am completely in the dark about all of this, can anyone please explain it to me?! Is someone other than Mary appearing somewhere??

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Read the article!!

Maybe sombody can post an article in favor of the authenticity so as to present you with the other side ?

 

[Christy4Christ]

Oh I am sorry I didn't see the article, I will look for it...

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Here 'tis:

http://www.unitypublishing.com/Appa...ugorjeRICK.html

 

[Christy4Christ]

I know I read it but I am confused as to whether you are for it or against it...I am sorry I am a little slow sometimes..

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

After a lot of prayer, investigation and spiritual direction-- that the apparitions at Medjugorje are either not ocurring or are demonic in nature-- under the guise of greater holiness- the messages speak to a "one world religion"...... People may experience good fruit from "false" apparitions- especially if the go in a spirit of obedience-- but once a person puts more faith in the seer or seers than in the Church hierarchy-- they are being led astray....

 

[Christy4Christ]

A one world faith has been my biggest concern in all of this, I see the problem there as well...

 

[KC Catholic]

Per request of original poster...drawing this thread to a close.

~KC