Fasting

[nutroll]

No, God is honoured during the day. During the night we are free to enjoy the bounty of His creation.

I know, it's a bit silly that some actually fatten during Ramadan, but as long as they follow the rules on fasting to the letter during the day, I cannot condemn them. Fasting from dawn to dusk still takes a significant level of dedication.

Does it? I've done that a lot of times purely by accident. There are lots of times that I have forgotten to eat something and look at my watch and realize that it's already evening.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Does it? I've done that a lot of times purely by accident. There are lots of times that I have forgotten to eat something and look at my watch and realize that it's already evening.

I agree with you, put me on a computer with internet and a good game, my wife can testify to this, I would go without eating whole day, she says I forget about everything, even myself. It is not a hard thing for me at this time.

 

[Vasileios]

I do it on purpose when we have planned to go at a taverna so I'll enjoy the food more from the anticipation!

We do it all the time! "Don't eat! We'll have souvlakia!"

 

[Philothei]

Vassilie did you see on tv Gulen drinking water during Ramazani ? The Greek/Turkish tv made a big deal about it....lol.... someone gave him the water and he just drunk it and then realized what he was doing...

 

[Prawnik]

No, God is honoured during the day. During the night we are free to enjoy the bounty of His creation.

I know, it's a bit silly that some actually fatten during Ramadan, but as long as they follow the rules on fasting to the letter during the day, I cannot condemn them. Fasting from dawn to dusk still takes a significant level of dedication.

"to the letter". Therein lies the rub.

Fundamentalisms, following things to the letter, only invites legalism. When we follow things to the letter, we read Scripture like a lawyer scanning a contract for loopholes. Is there love in an adversarial relationship with God? Where He tells us what we must do and what we cannot do, and we try to justify doing what we want to anyway, all the while minding the strict letter of the law.

I'm a lawyer, that is what we do. "Woe unto you, you lawyers" Christ said. "For the letter of the law killeth, but the Spirit giveth life".

Reading for the spirit of Scripture, reading the words with a spirit of love, is a different thing. Love does not allow loopholes. If you love your mother, and she is ill and sends you to the corner store to buy aspirin, you do not give up and go home because the specific store she sent you to is closed. You go and search until you find what she needs.

And if you bring your sick mother ibuprofen and not aspirin because that is all there was to buy, she does not say "I said a-s-p-i-r-i-n!" but she knows that you did your best for her.

Love is complicated, full of give-and-take, sacrifices and tough choices. If your friend is an alcoholic, you might change your plans for your birthday party so as not to lead your friend into temptation. Your other friends might disagree.

Love requires freedom, not "do it my way or I'll have to bust out with the other thing" to paraphrase C.S. Lewis. We might discipline our children, we might have to tell a friend some harsh words, but it breaks our hearts to do so. Remember what C.S. Lewis said about moral choices and theosis (Rusmeister,
I am tagging you in here!)

Love is more interested in what is in your heart than in results. If you fast or give alms in order to look like a holy dude, than it is for all naught. "Let not your left hand know what your right hand is doing." Regardless of the results achieved. Because it is not concerned with results or metrics, love cannot be shortchanged. You cannot pray five times a day and call that enough. For love, there is never enough.

Rules are easy. Love is hard. Which makes it much more real.

 

[VickiY]

To get back to the old thread of the OP...The Orthodox Church requires strict fasting by those who are able to do so (health, pregnancy, and other issues may prevent this) on certain days of the year. For instance...the first week of Great Lent no food is to be taken, only water, from the end of Forgiveness Sunday Vespers until Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evening, then one may have a Lenten meal, not a feast, then no more food, only water, until after Presanctified Liturgy on Friday.

The question you have concerns not fasting, but abstinence, which it is properly referred to. We fast (nothing but water) on certain days of the year, but the majority of the "fasts" are periods of abstinence mis-labelled. Fasting does indeed entail going without food altogether, but we did not break with the traditional meaning of the word, but we use the word fasting to mean giving up certain foods, termed by the Church abstinence, not fasting. Just poor choice of words on our part. Typically, the Church refers to the "fast" periods as Great Lent, Advent, Apostle's Lent, and Dormition Lent...not fasts.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Vassilie did you see on tv Gulen drinking water during Ramazani ? The Greek/Turkish tv made a big deal about it....lol.... someone gave him the water and he just drunk it and then realized what he was doing...

Gulen?

Fettullah Gulen? The guy who cries a lot during his sermons, who fled to US to avoid standing trial for the charges to take control of the state?

I would make a big deal out of it too, I'd actually LMAO.

 

[Philothei]

Sorry Bushmaster his name is Gul the prime minister (I think ...) of Turkey. I am terrible with names... anywho.... I tried to find the story but could not maybe you can since your Turkish is better(lol...) than mine...


God bless,
Philothei

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Well, it is ok, Fettullah Gulen is a muslim leader and represents a large group of Nur movement in Turkey. Gul is their new president. Whatever, it doesn't matter. still LMAO.

 

[zhilan]

I think that the Orthodox fast actually is from the Bible. I remember my priest saying that somewhere in the OT lays out what you should eat when you fast and the Orthodox church follow that. But I don't know where in the Bible that is. Does anyone know?

 

[Futuwwa]

Does it? I've done that a lot of times purely by accident. There are lots of times that I have forgotten to eat something and look at my watch and realize that it's already evening.

I agree with you, put me on a computer with internet and a good game, my wife can testify to this, I would go without eating whole day, she says I forget about everything, even myself. It is not a hard thing for me at this time.

Bleh, you're denigrating my accomplishments! Right, maybe I'm just the one who has been fed too well and too regularly. Ok, that's it, the next fast will be 24h, no food or drink until this time tomorrow evening! I are serious Muslim!

 

[Philothei]

If you are a good muslim what are you doing with the giaour? (Bushmaster would be better at this!)

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Futuwwa ain't showing tomorrow...

(Bushmaster would be better at this!)

They don't take me as a real muslim, since I left Islam, that means I never had the understanding of it.

 

[DarkNLovely]

Bleh, you're denigrating my accomplishments! Right, maybe I'm just the one who has been fed too well and too regularly. Ok, that's it, the next fast will be 24h, no food or drink until this time tomorrow evening! I are serious Muslim!

Hehe! You know too, on a real strict fast, nobody should bathe, or brush their teeth or change their clothes. As a matter of fact, maybe you shouldn't wear clothes as one might get the impression you care too much about how you look at this time. Also, refrain from saying Hi to people you pass on the street, as this may suggest that you aren't consentrating. In fact, don't go out all! Especially if you aren't gonna wear clothes! It may sugggest you are enjoying yourself and not being pious enough. *this is purely sarcastic. I happen to think that a 12 hour fast is perfectly fine. I have been on one!*

Bushmaster! You used to be Muslim?

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Born and raised my friend... along with the Ottoman brainwash in school.

 

[MariaRegina]

Well, obviously we can't fast like Christ 24/7 because it would kill us. So Islam has proscribed the fast as being a complete fast, like Christ's, but only during daylight hours. That way, people can eat to refuel their bodies before and after it starts. The perfect compromise.

No, not so.

Can muslims eat meats or heavy meals with cream, eggs, butter, and cheese immediately after sundown?

Scientists and monastics tell us not to go to sleep with a full stomach ... for two good reasons:

(1) Lying down on a full stomach can cause gastric reflux and other medical problems.

(2) Eating meat or heavy meals before retiring can lead to sins of lust since gluttony leads to lust. This is one reason why monastics do not eat any meat whatsoever (day or night) except for fish on special feastdays, nor do they stuff themselves full, but are to leave the table before being full.

And #2 poses a problem because when we fast, we are supposed to be abstaining from sex, entertainment that can lead to sin, and sin itself. So we are to guard our tongues and not talk during the fast.

Does Islam require such dedication? It turns out that if you add up all the fast days in Orthodoxy, we married Orthodox Christians are abstaining from sex and our favorite foods more than half a year: Every Wednesday, Friday, Saturday night and then during the 40 day fasts called the Nativity Fast, Great Lent, the Apostles Fast and then the Fast of the Theotokos. Besides those times, there are other times: Beheading of St. John the Forerunner, Elevation of the Holy Cross, and the day before the Epiphany. Did I miss any others?

 

[zhilan]

No, not so.

Can muslims eat meats or heavy meals with cream, eggs, butter, and cheese immediately after sundown?

Scientists and monastics tell us not to go to sleep with a full stomach ... for two good reasons:

(1) Lying down on a full stomach can cause gastric reflux and medical other problems.

(2) Eating meat or heavy meals before retiring can lead to sins of lust since gluttony leads to lust. This is one reason why monastics do not eat any meat whatsoever (day or night) except for fish on special feastdays, nor do they stuff themselves full, but are to leave the table before being full.

And #2 poses a problem because when we fast, we are supposed to be abstaining from sex, entertainment that can lead to sin, and sin itself. So we are to guard our tongues and not talk during the fast.

Does Islam require such dedication? It turns out that if you add up all the fast days in Orthodoxy, we married Orthodox Christians are abstaining from sex and our favorite foods more than half a year: Every Wednesday, Friday, Saturday night and then during the 40 day fasts called the Nativity Fast, Great Lent, the Apostles Fast and then the Fast of the Theotokos. Besides those times, there are other times: Beheading of St. John the Forerunner, Elevation of the Holy Cross, and the day before the Epiphany. Did I miss any others?

Interesting. I didn't know that teaching of the monks but it is definitely something good to think about!

 

[Philothei]

How can you fast all day and living in rememberance of God and fornicate and eat uncontrolably at night and still be "pious" and live in rememberance.... Christ by no means did that at the desert... He fasted and he did not "celebrate creation" at night.... It sounds wrong and makes absolutely no sense... and the rest of the time? Outside of Ramadan? You are free to do whatever. This does not teach any discipline in my opinion just following a controlling life style just like any cult. People are born with "free will" to chose what they do in life. EO church does not "put a dress one size fits all" to its followers. Fast is not forced... rather it is a tool to help us woship God, living in His rememberance all day and night! Because our spiritual life does not stop during the day... it continues and the fathers warn us about all the evils that lark in the darkness.
Edit:

"Fasting is not merely a restraining from food. During the days of the fasts, the Church sings, "While fasting bodily, let us also fast spiritually..." True fasting includes deeds of Christian mercy. It is an alienation of the evil-one, a restraint of the tongue, a laying aside of anger, a cutting off of vices and an exposure of falsehood... Thus, for a Christian, fasting is a time of restraint and self-education in all respects, and a real Christian fast gives believers a great moral satisfaction. The great teacher of Christian asceticism Bishop Theophan the Recluse says of fasting:
"Fasting appears gloomy until one steps into its arena. But begin and you will see what light it brings after darkness, what freedom from bonds, what release after a burdensome life...."
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/prayer_feasts_fasts.aspx
God bless,
Philothei

 

[buzuxi02]

Fasting from foods is performed one of two ways

1. Skipping meals or a meal
2 Abstaining from certain foods (and it usually are foods which seem to imply luxury).

Muslims fast 12 hours during the day, so the meals they skip they make up at nite (when they wouldnt be eating regularly to begin with).

The jews on yom kippur have a 25 hour fast, so they skip the meals of an entire day.

You also fast thru abstaining, the hebrews in the desert ate manna and pretty much nothing else.

St John the Baptist living in the wilderness only ate honey and locusts.

Christ says to the pharisees, "For John the baptistcame neither eating bread nor drining wine, and you say, He has a demon. The Son of Man has come eating and drinking and you say, Look! a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners" Lk 7.34

And in another scripture verse, "Jesus said, Can the friends of the bridegroom fast while the bridegroom is with them? As long as they have the bridegroom with them they cannot fast. But the days will come when the bridegroom will be taken away from them and then they will fast in that day." MK 2.19-20.

Skipping meals is not the only appropriate practise as the OP implys.

Abstaining from certain foods for a time was also practised (1 SAM 31.13, 1 CHR 10.12)

 

[Hoankan]

Bleh, you're denigrating my accomplishments! Right, maybe I'm just the one who has been fed too well and too regularly. Ok, that's it, the next fast will be 24h, no food or drink until this time tomorrow evening! I are serious Muslim!

I'm sorry but this bothers me. It seems like you are now going to fast for the sake of pride, not for the sake of God.