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buzuxi02

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Well, obviously we can't fast like Christ 24/7 because it would kill us. So Islam has proscribed the fast as being a complete fast, like Christ's, but only during daylight hours. That way, people can eat to refuel their bodies before and after it starts. The perfect compromise.
Thats the silliest thing i ever heard. Breakfast is called that because we break the fast. We fast all night during sleep. The muslim version is simply reversed, not a fast at all.

A true fast is abstaining from foods considered luxury items. Olive oil falls under this category and is not eaten during a strict fast not just meat and dairy as you say.Wine also falls under this category. The discipline of fasting is an ascetical practise of self denial to tame the passions of the flesh. Going without certain wordly pleasures, this includes sexual relations.

In an islamic fast one simply needs to sleep during the day, which is exactly what happens n the middle east and near east as well ! Too hot to be active during the day with sun blazing down.
 
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TrueHope

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I actually watched an Islamic show last night in English, with a very calm mannered man, who in his mannerisms appeared even more soothing than Ghandi could. During this hour, he described the birth of Mohammed etc. etc. And discussed fasts. Then they showed prayers.... I tell you, if I hadn't found the Truth, I would have fallen hook line and sinker....for it was so beautifully put. Had I known nothing that was not discussed, that is....I have discovered, personally, the more I feel a tugging to question EVERYTHING re: the EOC, the more I KNOW I am in the right place. The devil wants us to run so far away from the truth, he will plant ridiculous lies in our heads to convince us we are not in the right place...Each time I get to a certain point of ....Oh no...what have I done, God hands me something to show me I am in the right place...not once, not twice...EVERY TIME!

I humbly ask you, as one who daily battles certain EOC rules/doctrines etc....please don't consider joining Islam......My heart would break if you did. And I don't barely know who you are.
 
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Monica child of God 1

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Yes, heresy and apostacy will be presented in the most appealing way possible. If we are not grounded in the Faith, the sacraments, the Scriptures, the teachings of the Fathers and saints and all of the Holy Tradition, we will fall for the traps set to snare us. We will be lured by externals like headcoverings and fasting while neglecting the one thing needful.

M.
 
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Monica child of God 1

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Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. --1 Peter 5:8-9
 
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TrueHope

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Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. --1 Peter 5:8-9
Funny, I was going to post that....and in another thread too. :)
 
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rusmeister

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A person who has an honest question of this nature about fasting will be sure to ask their priest.

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

How about it, Michael?
 
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BuriedtoBloom

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Michael,

Many people in this thread have expressed deep, sincere concern, and they are asking for thoughtful answers in reply to their questions. If Christ is still your Lord and Savior, please answer them, and let no division among us be a shameful display of broken fellowship in the Body.

I add a few of my own questions, taken mostly from my response to you in the Islam thread a few weeks back. Forgive me if that post was long-winded or confusing, but I would truly like to hear your thoughts on the following:
-

...if Allah was alone before the creation of angels, of men, of subatomic particles; and if he is always and ever alone by virtue of his very essence, then that state of loneliness and self-love is, in fact, the ideal toward which we should strive. Shouldn't we desire to imitate our god and master?

One might say that Allah did require an object for his great love, a vessel to receive the outpouring of his eternal benevolence. But if god needs his creation in order to express his nature and complete the image of his personal being, then isn't the creation itself equally deified? In its very conception it also conceives and sustains its creator, fulfilling his great need in a moment of frustrated omnipotence. He exercised no freedom of will in his act of creation: sheer, deterministic necessity drove him to it. And yet if his existence as god is disqualified without his creation, how could he even be said to exist apart from it?

How would the image of the eternal hermit be expressed in the mirror of creation? Certainly not in love, friendship, charity, and sacrifice, nor in hatred, greed, vice, and treachery; for all of these demonstrate a distinction between harmony and disharmony, between cooperation and contradiction. Before a relationship can exist- whether it is between a proton and electron or between Creator and creature - there must first be a distinction in diversity and a reconciliation in unity. This relationship must find its source in the relationship of God in Himself.

But if our god is Allah and all things flow from the simplicity of his oneness, why do the categories of different and same co-exist? And why do we live and act at all times with a rationale that is justified by the union of diversity?

Michael, please tell us... do you believe that God is love? I do. And that is why I am making my best, human effort to love you with these words and my prayers: because God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit has loved us first, with an ineffable love that expresses His very essence. And it is Him that we must serve, trust, and magnify in all things. Our Lord is Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh, the way, the truth, and the life- and you cannot know the Father apart from Him.

Please don't be afraid to admit ignorance or frailty of faith: we are all plagued by the same weakness. But it is only in recognizing this fact, and then submitting ourselves to the instruction of the Holy Spirit in Christ's Church, that we can rejoice in our brokenness and find strength apart from ourselves. Remember the words of the
Holy and All-laudable Apostle St. Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:7-10:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Grace and peace be with you, brother.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us sinners!
 
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Futuwwa

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*bump*

Interesting thread.

I have asked myself this question too. My first 40 day fast, I tried to live on Bread and water....because to me, fasting is all out nothing...as Christ did when Satan tried to tempt Him. This is another EO battle I carry. Plus, when it is fasting time, I know that each person does it a different way, personal to them, but fasting is also not talking about it, just doing it....and here, all people do is talk about it. It actually saddens me. (Here, my area in Greece...)

In case you're on the forum at present, is Orthodox fasting a mutable, customizable thing? Is it something you learn gradually? Who decides your level of commitment in fasting, is it your priest?

And if Bushmaster reads this, maybe you now could answer the thing I asked you in NCR awhile ago.
 
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DarkNLovely

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There are different kinds of fast. Read the book of Daniel! Also, for Ramadan, don't Muslims fast only 12 hours and feast the other 12? I actually heard that Muslim caterers make a killing around this time! BTW, I'm not knocking Muslim fasting. Just putting things in perspective.
 
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Futuwwa

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The exact hours would depend on the point in the solar year, as it is from dawn to dusk. At the latitudes where I live it's way more than 12 hours of fast, I struggle to fit both eating and sleeping into the night-time I get. But yes, people often party hard after dusk, and a few even manage to end ramadan fatter than they started it :D
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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*bump*

Interesting thread.



In case you're on the forum at present, is Orthodox fasting a mutable, customizable thing? Is it something you learn gradually? Who decides your level of commitment in fasting, is it your priest?

And if Bushmaster reads this, maybe you now could answer the thing I asked you in NCR awhile ago.


Well, the posts already on the thread don't answer your question? You asked what makes Orthodox fasting so different from Islamic fasting?

There are different kinds of fast. Read the book of Daniel! Also, for Ramadan, don't Muslims fast only 12 hours and feast the other 12? I actually heard that Muslim caterers make a killing around this time! BTW, I'm not knocking Muslim fasting. Just putting things in perspective.

Muslims don't eat or drink or smoke, from morning prayer to evening prayer, so it is around 12 hours. After evening prayer, you open your fast at iftar, the meal we called it, you can eat until next morning prayer, early before dawn... Millions do it, but honestly they don't know why they do it, it has traditional food and customs, such as from Ottomans, a guy coming down the street with a big drum to wake everyone up to get ready to fast, etc.
 
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Philothei

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M-A are you now suddenly Protestant and sola scriptura ....or muslim? The fast as practised in the EO church is according to councils and the cannons of the EOC I can give you the sources but I know I would be wasting my time....If you come here to challenge us with your new found "religion" I think you should move this thread to the debate area of TAW.

God bless,
Philothei
 
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Futuwwa

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Well, the posts already on the thread don't answer your question? You asked what makes Orthodox fasting so different from Islamic fasting?

Well, to be more accurate, you implied that Orthodox fasting is the real thing, superior to the Islamic variant, and I asked you to tell why it is so. But ok, if you think the other posts here answer it already, fine by me.
 
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DarkNLovely

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The exact hours would depend on the point in the solar year, as it is from dawn to dusk. At the latitudes where I live it's way more than 12 hours of fast, I struggle to fit both eating and sleeping into the night-time I get. But yes, people often party hard after dusk, and a few even manage to end ramadan fatter than they started it :D
Haha! Any special Ramadan foods? I had Moroccan food and oh my goodness, sooooo good. I have tons of Muslims and Arabs in the part of town where I live ut I never get to go any restaurants. I got an Arabic cook book from the library ages ago and the food looked so good. I didn't get to cook any though!:(
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Well, to be more accurate, you implied that Orthodox fasting is the real thing, superior to the Islamic variant, and I asked you to tell why it is so. But ok, if you think the other posts here answer it already, fine by me.

Right, that is what meant, maybe not worded in such way that particular thread because that kid is seriously disoriented about what he wants to practice. It was similar to another muslim saying that they fast because they want to experience what poor people without food go through...


Anyway, Monica's posts are worthy to review...
 
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Lukaris

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The exact hours would depend on the point in the solar year, as it is from dawn to dusk. At the latitudes where I live it's way more than 12 hours of fast, I struggle to fit both eating and sleeping into the night-time I get. But yes, people often party hard after dusk, and a few even manage to end ramadan fatter than they started it :D
This is how God is honored?
 
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Futuwwa

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Haha! Any special Ramadan foods? I had Moroccan food and oh my goodness, sooooo good. I have tons of Muslims and Arabs in the part of town where I live ut I never get to go any restaurants. I got an Arabic cook book from the library ages ago and the food looked so good. I didn't get to cook any though!:(

Well, there are lots of different traditional Ramadan foods in different cultures. Over here though, Muslims are practically nonexistent, so I usually go out all the little restaurants in the vicinity, which I otherwise hardly ever would do.
 
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Futuwwa

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This is how God is honored?

No, God is honoured during the day. During the night we are free to enjoy the bounty of His creation.

I know, it's a bit silly that some actually fatten during Ramadan, but as long as they follow the rules on fasting to the letter during the day, I cannot condemn them. Fasting from dawn to dusk still takes a significant level of dedication.
 
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