Fantastic Adventist Today Article!

[RC_NewProtestants]

RC-the trad church is not 'in trouble' as you put it. We will stand our ground while the rebels fall around us.

God had established this movement decades before your birth and He will take it/us to the second coming just as He began--by His strong arm. You can stay out of the ark if you wish.

Therefore it is no longer necessary to think logically to acknowledge actual history or to speak well of your fellow Christians. Because the Traditional SDA church is founded by God in the 1800's.

Yes you are in trouble.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Therefore it is no longer necessary to think logically to acknowledge actual history or to speak well of your fellow Christians. Because the Traditional SDA church is founded by God in the 1800's.

Yes you are in trouble.

ONLY in your mind RC--only in your mind. God is in control, not you.

 

[Sophia7]

I would prefer to stop being human.

JM

It is stressful and often unpleasent.

JM

What would you prefer to be?

 

[Sophia7]

Hi Avonia--no worries, and no offense taken. But I don't confuse zealousness of opinion with emotionalism in worship styles.

I think we really need to be careful to not confuse the two.

And I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with showing our emotions for gratefulness and love to God. Many times as I sit in church or home, tears of love and joy will overflow. Or while listening to uplifting gospel music my heart is transported to feeling of extreme emotions for God.

But please keep in mind my Pentecostal background where I saw emotional ecstacy taken to a level that was anything but Godly. It sickens me to see this very real threat over taking our SDA youth.

Perhaps your personal background has led you to be unduly critical of emotional expressions in worship. The fact that some churches take emotionalism too far does not mean that all contemporary worship styles and music are evil. I've been to many worship services in which people were praising God with great feeling, but it was nothing like what I observed in the Pentecostal church that I visited with a friend in high school.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

The funny thing is Sophia, it is to emotionalism that Honor bases most of her posts. When I noted the illogical nature of her statement she responded with emotionalism based upon her belief that God established the SDA church in the 1800's. Most logical people would say that Christ established the church about 1750 years before the 1800's. She produces little documentary evidence for her statements yet expects people to simply believe them unquestioningly and if they don't she restates the same thing over and over again as if that will make it more acceptable.

When you deal in that kind of emotionalism you can't deal with reason and logic because they are two different poles in the process of thinking. Since emotions are the guide it matters little what other people regard as right or wrong it is defined by her own emotionalism as being right or wrong. This is summed up well in our previous conversation. She does not deal with what is stated but plays to her emotional claims that God is on her side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC_NewProtestants
Therefore it is no longer necessary to think logically to acknowledge actual history or to speak well of your fellow Christians. Because the Traditional SDA church is founded by God in the 1800's.

Yes you are in trouble.

ONLY in your mind RC--only in your mind. God is in control, not you.

 

[NightEternal]

RC nails it!

 

[NightEternal]

Typical trad response. More proud to be an Adventist than a Christian.

Interesting you should say that Mankin. Check this out:

Do you consider yourself an Adventist first or a Christian first?

I am absolutely, positively, and primarily a Christian. By that I mean that Christ, and Christ alone, is my reason for living here and my hope for enjoying eternity in the hereafter. I’m an Adventist because it is one of the best vehicles I know of for expressing my faith in the love, mercy, grace, and justice of Jesus Christ. And while some Adventists detour into matters of secondary importance (health, prophecy, lifestyle, etc.), only faith in Christ can rescue us from this earthly experience. That’s why I will always be first and foremost a Christian.
—Steve Chavez, managing editor, Adventist Review, Silver Spring, Maryland

Christian first; Adventist second. Adventism finds its identity within Christianity, not Christianity within Adventism. The ongoing remnant of true Biblebelieving Christians down through the centuries has gone by all kinds of different names, but always in the context of being Christian.
—Clarissa Worley, pastor, singer, speaker, and writer, Salem, Oregon

I have accepted Christ as my Savior; therefore, I am first a Christian. I have become a member of His church—the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Simply stated, I believe the Adventist Church, though only 1 percent of all the Christian community, is most like the early New Testament Church in its biblical teachings and acceptance of the Great Commission to take the gospel to every creature on earth. I am in a covenant relationship with Christ. I express that publicly by being a part of and supporting His Church. Therefore I am a Seventh-day Adventist Christian.
—G. Edward Reid, stewardship director, North American Division of Seventh-day Adventists, Silver Spring, Maryland

Hands down, I consider myself a Christian first. It is important to keep organized religion “in its place.” The non-sacred culture and dogma of an organized religion can easily overwhelm the joy of Christianity. I refuse to allow this to happen in my life.
—Lynn Caldwell, American Humanics Campus Director, Southern Adventist University, Collegedale, Tennessee

I consider myself a Christ-follower. As this overlaps with Adventists and Christians, I am part of those communities as well.
—A. Allan Martin, associate professor of Discipleship and Family Ministry, Andrews University, Berrien Springs, Michigan

Liberal and moderate Adventists all concur, Christian first. Makes sense, that's the way it should be with all of us, right?

Not so fast...

 

[NightEternal]

If by Adventist, we mean the most biblically consistent Christian, then absolutely yes—I’m an Adventist first. This kind of Adventism is radically Bible-based, lifetransforming, intelligent, authentically evangelical and ecumenical, mission-driven but humble, gutsy but irenic, and spiritually vibrant! I call it Adventisque, because it is Christianity at its best. As a theologically conservative body, it is the only credible eschatological movement capable of actually preparing a holy people to meet their holy Lord at His second coming. The Bible points to these “Adventing” Christians in the following words: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus (Revelation 14:12; cf. 12:17; 19:10).
—Samuel Koranteng-Pipim, Ph.D., director, Public Campus Ministries, Michigan Conference

Leave it to the ultra-right Trads to ruin the consensus!

It's clear where thier allegiance lies, and that is to Adventism first and foremost. We have it in writing from one of thier very own prominent leaders!

 

[honorthesabbath]

Perhaps your personal background has led you to be unduly critical of emotional expressions in worship. The fact that some churches take emotionalism too far does not mean that all contemporary worship styles and music are evil. I've been to many worship services in which people were praising God with great feeling, but it was nothing like what I observed in the Pentecostal church that I visited with a friend in high school.

Sophia--where is ANY of my posts have you read me say that I was opposed to ALL expressions of emotions in worship? NO WHERE!

So once again I am subjected to you and a few others radical interpretations of what I say.

 

[mva1985]

If by Adventist, we mean the most biblically consistent Christian, then absolutely yes—I’m an Adventist first. This kind of Adventism is radically Bible-based, lifetransforming, intelligent, authentically evangelical and ecumenical, mission-driven but humble, gutsy but irenic, and spiritually vibrant! I call it Adventisque, because it is Christianity at its best. As a theologically conservative body, it is the only credible eschatological movement capable of actually preparing a holy people to meet their holy Lord at His second coming. The Bible points to these “Adventing” Christians in the following words: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus (Revelation 14:12; cf. 12:17; 19:10).
—Samuel Koranteng-Pipim, Ph.D., director, Public Campus Ministries, Michigan Conference

Great quote thanks for posting it!!!

By his definition an Adventist = most Biblically consistent Christian.

 

[NightEternal]

 

[happywiththelord]

i agree MVA! I like Pipim.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Great quote thanks for posting it!!!

By his definition an Adventist = most Biblically consistent Christian.

Ah yes, if by Adventist you mean my private definition... That is what Pipim said. But he is not the only one with a silly answer. The guy who said he is a Christ follower is an equally foolish answer. What does he think the word Christian means?

 

[NightEternal]

Good point RC.

 

[Lebesgue]

Once again, many of the references in this article are to 'emotion's'. I think that the 'disillusionment' among the youth of the SDA church is coming from all the 'hype' and ecstatic hoopla of the evangelical churches. They FEEL as though they are missing out on all the ‘fun’.

This is one of the dangers warned about in the great deception of these last days. “Emotionalism is confused with the true Spirit’. Coming from a Pentecostal background, I am well aware of its appeal to the feelings of the young whose emotions are of immense importance to them.

They also want to desperately ‘fit in’ with the rest of the world. Youth just HATE FEELING different. This too is behind the power of the evangelical movement. It’s really not about becoming more holy—but FEELING more holy irregardless of ones behavior.
The proof of this statement is confirmed with this article itself…

[FONT=&quot]Many of the features of evangelical Christianity were baptized into Adventism in 1957, when the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Adventist[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Church[/FONT][FONT=&quot] published Seventh- day Adventists Answer Questions on Doctrine. It was written in response to questions posed by [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Walter[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Martin[/FONT][FONT=&quot], author of the well known book Kingdom of the Cults (original printing 1965).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Martin, a Southern Baptist who made a career out of judging who was a cult and who was not, met with a group of Adventist scholars in order to ascertain whether Adventism should remain classified as a Christian cult or if it belonged to the sisterhood of Protestant churches. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Adventists who worked with [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Martin[/FONT][FONT=&quot] answered enough of his questions correctly to receive a passing score by his reckoning, [/FONT][FONT=&quot](and who made him judge over our church?)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and on that basis, Adventists were thereafter no longer classified as a Christian cult. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Evangelical Adventism had been born[/FONT][FONT=&quot], though some influential traditional Adventists were not shy in questioning its paternity.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It’s not hard for the discerning eye to see that those who’s emotions and feelings lead and guide them would favor distancing themselves from an organization where calm, quiet FAITH is preferred and practiced.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I also find it extremely disturbing that the SDA people would cower to the likes of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Walter[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Martin[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and his tacky attempts to villinize a movement that God Himself raised up. [/FONT]

The Adventism movement was borne of a mistake by William Miller, trying to set a date for the return of Jesus, when the Bible EXPLICITLY states NOT to do that.

The IJ was made to rationalise this and salve the "wounds" of those who suffered the "Great Disappointment". I understand how they must have felt, they gave up EVERYTHING thinking Jesus would return on October 22, 1844 and when He didn't it must have really hurt.

But the Investigative Judgement HURTS too.
I have shared that when I realised there was NO WAY I could pass the Investigative Judgement no matter what I did or didn't do, I was ready to just give up on G-d and be an atheist. I figured I couldn't be saved, so why no just do whatever I want to do it's a "wash" anyway.
I COULD NOT and DID NOT have any assurance of salvation when I was an Adventist and this NEARLY DESTROYED me spiritually.

Do you know what it's like to not be able to go to sleep at night because you are so worried that if you forgot to confess a sin or was ignorant of one and if you died in your sleep, G-d would unforgive everything He had forgiven before as Ellen White said in Chapter 28 of the Great Controversy? Well I do and it was a truly horrid way to live

Maybe your experience wasn't like that but I spent 14 years in HARDCORE Trad SDA churches that beat people over the head with Ellen White and taught the IJ and character perfection and all that other stuff.

Yes there are good things in Adventism. The Sabbath is
one of them and the food laws are another.

I think if the SDA church made the changes mentioned in the article mentioned in the OP it would improve much for the better. Not enough to win me back, but I think the need for magazines like Proclamtion would go away.

G-d Bless.

Shalom,

Lebesgue

 

[Lebesgue]

I don't know if they are on the same spectrum at all. AT has some well written articles, whether you agree with them or not. I've been thumbing through Proclamation since they first started sending me issues. It's like reading the same issue over, and over, and over again.

I also find it offensive that they only publish letters/comments from current Adventists that come off as militant whackos. And letters of support that all sound the same.

There was a post on this forum some time ago that used the phrase "Grace Legalists." Interesting.

But, if it's helpful for the community that's benefiting from it, then great. Personally, it feels quite small to me.

I do think Proclamation goes too far at times. I also think that IF the SDA church made the changes mentioned in the article mentioned in the OP it would improve much for the better. Not enough that I would come back but I think you would see Proclamtion lightening up some on Adventism.

But, make no mistake about it, there is some Adventist invective directed at Proclamtion magazine.
I started reading it when I was procession out of the Adventist Church and when the Pastor of my former church found out about it, he waved a copy of Proclamtion in front of me and yelled that they are doing the work of Satan and that I would be disfellowshipped and branded an enemy of the SDA church if I didn't stop reading it and he further threatend that my wife would divorce me if that happend.(Hmmmm I left the church and my marriage is STRONGER than ever).
This same pastor did a sermon which he later admitted was directed at moi(duh! I had already figured that out),where he was telling the congregation to only go to SDA church officers and Pastors with questions and not to "outside" sources, their salvation could depend on that.

While Proclamation may go too far at times, The SDA chuch DOES need to reform and become like what the article in the OP mentions.

G-d Bless.

Shalom,

Lebesgue