False Teachings From Kenneth Hagin.

riverpastor · Sep 7, 2005

Wait a minute...

You mean, I'm not an incarnation, a temple, a dwelling place, of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ???

You mean that I don't have divine union with the Lord, being a partaker of God's divine nature?!?!?!?

Golly-gee-willikers, Wally?!?!?!? Maybe that's why the "church" is in the state that it's in!!!

ShaunJ · Sep 7, 2005

riverpastor said:
Wait a minute...

You mean, I'm not an incarnation, a temple, a dwelling place, of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ???

You mean that I don't have divine union with the Lord, being a partaker of God's divine nature?!?!?!?

Golly-gee-willikers, Wally?!?!?!? Maybe that's why the "church" is in the state that it's in!!!

riverpastor · Sep 7, 2005

Salvation only brings us to the point where the debt has been paid.

It doesn't necessarily mean that we will enter into fullness. There is so much more to entering the Kingdom of God than just its entry point.

The Cross makes a door available. But, the Resurrection gives us so much more!!!

SavedByGrace3 · Sep 7, 2005

Christina M said:
WONDERFUL, BLESSED response, Victoryword (as always). You present the well-adjusted and informed knowledge.

Thank you for this!

VW has the best responses that I know.
Unlike the shallow and "mud thrown and rethrown" of the critics, he always has good solid scriptural references and above and beyond the call mannerisms.
Hats off the VW.

victoryword · Sep 7, 2005

Thanks for the kind words ShaunJ and Didi.

RiverPastor, your post was funny but rung with much truth

People get so caught up in religious words like "sovereignty" and "incarnation." Say that man is a "sovereign" being and you will be accused of blasphemy. Yet, the word simply means "authority" and unless one is a hyper-calvinist, one must acknowledge that man certainly is sovereign within a certain realm.

The same is true of Charistians being an "incarnation." The only application people want to make is the one about God (Jesus) becoming flesh. The word "incarnation" is not even in the Bible but people will fight to the death to have this religious word only used within their particular theological parameters. But if the Holy Spirit inspired John to say that just He was in the world, so are we, then what is the big fat deal with saying that we are an incarnation like Jesus if we are temples of the Living God? We are not claiming to be God but we are claiming to be in union with Him.

Stepping off soapbox now until more opportune time. This is RP's fault y'know

riverpastor · Sep 7, 2005

I take full responsibility!

Christina M · Sep 7, 2005

riverpastor said:
There is so much more to entering the Kingdom of God than just its entry point. The Cross makes a door available. But, the Resurrection gives us so much more!!!

This is why I so thoroughly respect and enjoy many of the ministries (incorrectly called false and heretic by some here).......they equip the saints once they are saved.....since there is so much more than salvation. They help them go from milk to meat.

The other thing about them I respect is that you don't see them turning it around and spreading horrible things and dissecting every sermon of the "opposite camp". They just shake the dust off and go on.

I thank GOD for Kenneth Hagin and the legacy he has left us.

riverpastor · Sep 7, 2005

I think there is such a base misunderstanding of what it means to be in this Everlasting Covenant with the Father.

When we do not look intently, gazing into it, brooding over it, meditating upon it, then we lose so much by default. By default, we are not controlled and led by the Word. By default, we are not satisfied in the Spirit. By default, we go astray as we are self-led.

I thank God for the Covenant. It is by this Covenant that we enter into the manifold grace of the Spirit. He never leads us into lack or wantonness or sickness or disease.

The Holy Spirit is more than ABLE and more than WILLING to bring us out of the depravity of sin and the fallen state of this world. He longs to bring us into all the fullness awarded to us by the Great Judge. The Father has awarded the Holy Spirit custody over our lives. What an empowering thought!!! He is responsible for my daily care. He is responsible for leading me into all Truth. He is responsible for taking the scripture and making it the Word.

Paul tells us that we are not to be conformed to this world. We are not to be conformed to its depravity. We are not to be conformed to its lack. We are not to be conformed to its wantonness. We are not to be conformed to its fallenness.

We are to be TRANSFORMED by renewing our minds to this Covenant so that WE MAY PROVE what is the perfect, acceptable and good wiil of God!!!

I'd rather be labeled a heretic and have the Kingdom of God in my life than be labeled "acceptable" and not have proof of the Kingdom.

godson777 · Sep 7, 2005

This is ridiculous. I can't stand these threads that aim to bring down and destroy and pull apart. Kenneth Hagin was a man of God, and I have to say that I completely agree with all of his quotes given in the opening post. When you study the Word with an open mind like he has then you will discover the same truths. Why do people feel such a need to pull apart these great teachers who have taken the body of Christ a step forward? I used to be anti-wof but I kept an open mind and slowly God showed me the truth of the scriptures. Kenneth Hagin surely was a man of God.

TreeOfLife · Sep 7, 2005

Simple and oh so very direct. Any human that claims the sovreignity of God is just a religious word, does not know God in any fashion. He must be an arrogant misfit that we can only pray God has in His Mercy and Sovriegnity saved.

How's that?

I am as totally steadfast and without repentence in any form against that man glorifying false doctrine as I can possibly be.

That is my right isn't it? You attack the sovreignity of God with your words, I should be able to attack you with mine. Seems only fair to me.

You continue to try to bring God down to your level and I will resist you with everything I have. Truth is not a matter of "choice". Truth is no matter what.

SavedByGrace3 · Sep 7, 2005

#2... well played.

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=17949143&postcount=1

TreeOfLife said:
Simple and oh so very direct. Any human that claims the sovreignity of God is just a religious word, does not know God in any fashion. He must be an arrogant misfit that we can only pray God has in His Mercy and Sovriegnity saved.

How's that?

I am as totally steadfast and without repentence in any form against that man glorifying false doctrine as I can possibly be.

That is my right isn't it? You attack the sovreignity of God with your words, I should be able to attack you with mine. Seems only fair to me.

You continue to try to bring God down to your level and I will resist you with everything I have. Truth is not a matter of "choice". Truth is no matter what.

Christina M · Sep 7, 2005

When you can't dispute the scriptures, drop back and kick: "let Gawd be Gawd and man be man!". It proves absolutely nothing... but it works!

victoryword · Sep 8, 2005

didaskalos said:
#2... well played.

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=17949143&postcount=1

Hammer aimed, nail head hit, product displayed

TreeOfLife · Sep 8, 2005

Convenient. Weak and fleshy, but convenient.

victoryword · Sep 8, 2005

TreeOfLife said:
Simple and oh so very direct. Any human that claims the sovreignity of God is just a religious word, does not know God in any fashion. He must be an arrogant misfit that we can only pray God has in His Mercy and Sovriegnity saved.

How's that?

I am as totally steadfast and without repentence in any form against that man glorifying false doctrine as I can possibly be.

That is my right isn't it? You attack the sovreignity of God with your words, I should be able to attack you with mine. Seems only fair to me.

You continue to try to bring God down to your level and I will resist you with everything I have. Truth is not a matter of "choice". Truth is no matter what.

I notice that your label say "Charismatic Calvinist." This tells me enough already and why you have written such a ridiculous post. For the Calvinist, everything centers around their FALSE doctrine of God's sovereignty.

Notice I didn't say that God is not sovereign. I am saying that the Calvinist teaches this attribute falsely. God is sovereign since He is the rightful ruler over all of His creation. Jesus is indeed King of kings and Lord of lords. Yet, the king over any nation is alos sovereign. I am also sovereign in any decisions that I make. Sovereignty simply means authority and rulership but the Calvinist has distorted the term to mean something more than that.

The Calvinist, due to his utterly false teaching of total depravity (total inability) believes that man does absolutely nothing apart from God and that every decision made by a man was decreed by God in some fashion. Yet, when we bring up the fact that this false teaching makes God the author of sin then the Calvinist shrinks from it and blast his opponent with a bunch of theological hogwash like supralapsarianism and infralapsarianism. The only Bible that the Calvinist of this kind is familiar with is those prooftexts taken from the context to prove his pretext. The Calvinist primarily relies upon his/her distorted theological terminology to argue his case.

Your post if proof of that. You don't argue from Scripture. You argue from ridiculous reasoning. It's so ridiculous that I am wondering right now why I am wasting time responding to it. It could be that you have done another classic maneuver prevalent among internet Calvinists - you created a STRAWMAN by claiming that I said the sovereignty of God is just a religious word and then calling me an arrogant misfit. Here is what I REALLY said:

People get so caught up in religious words like "sovereignty" and "incarnation." Say that man is a "sovereign" being and you will be accused of blasphemy. Yet, the word simply means "authority" and unless one is a hyper-calvinist, one must acknowledge that man certainly is sovereign within a certain realm.

So shame on you for misrepresenting what was ACTUALLY said and twisting it so that you can have an excuse to whine and regurgitate the usual rhetoric of your camp.

victoryword · Sep 8, 2005

TreeOfLife said:
Convenient. Weak and fleshy, but convenient.

You call others fleshly when you earlier wrote:

You attack the sovreignity of God with your words, I should be able to attack you with mine. Seems only fair to me.

You believe in vengeance (against the teaching of Scripture - see Hebrews 13) and ***-for-tat, yet you have the audacity to claim that others are reacting in a weak and flashly way? What is wrong with this picture?

SavedByGrace3 · Sep 8, 2005

TreeOfLife said:
Convenient. Weak and fleshy, but convenient.

"The flesh"!!!!
That is a definate candidate for the list of games people play.
No rythme or reason to it. No explanation.
Just point at someone and start chanting the magic word: "flesh.... flesh... flesh".
Reminds me of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" when the aliens point at the man and start screeching.

SavedByGrace3 · Sep 8, 2005

Once again you have correctly diagnosed the symptoms and underlieing error.
I call it supersovereignty.
The advocate of this needs proceed no further than just this one concept.
Just sit back and ride the sovereign waves. The word, the gospel, the work of Jesus... all of these are just bit players in the overwhelming (and unknown) sovereign will of God.
This is an offshoot of the doctrine of the unknown God and is (you guessed it) part of the religion of "mere theism".
I'll stick with Jesus.... thank you very much!

victoryword said:
I notice that your label say "Charismatic Calvinist." This tells me enough already and why you have written such a ridiculous post. For the Calvinist, everything centers around their FALSE doctrine of God's sovereignty.

Notice I didn't say that God is not sovereign. I am saying that the Calvinist teaches this attribute falsely. God is sovereign since He is the rightful ruler over all of His creation. Jesus is indeed King of kings and Lord of lords. Yet, the king over any nation is alos sovereign. I am also sovereign in any decisions that I make. Sovereignty simply means authority and rulership but the Calvinist has distorted the term to mean something more than that.

The Calvinist, due to his utterly false teaching of total depravity (total inability) believes that man does absolutely nothing apart from God and that every decision made by a man was decreed by God in some fashion. Yet, when we bring up the fact that this false teaching makes God the author of sin then the Calvinist shrinks from it and blast his opponent with a bunch of theological hogwash like supralapsarianism and infralapsarianism. The only Bible that the Calvinist of this kind is familiar with is those prooftexts taken from the context to prove his pretext. The Calvinist primarily relies upon his/her distorted theological terminology to argue his case.

Your post if proof of that. You don't argue from Scripture. You argue from ridiculous reasoning. It's so ridiculous that I am wondering right now why I am wasting time responding to it. It could be that you have done another classic maneuver prevalent among internet Calvinists - you created a STRAWMAN by claiming that I said the sovereignty of God is just a religious word and then calling me an arrogant misfit. Here is what I REALLY said:

People get so caught up in religious words like "sovereignty" and "incarnation." Say that man is a "sovereign" being and you will be accused of blasphemy. Yet, the word simply means "authority" and unless one is a hyper-calvinist, one must acknowledge that man certainly is sovereign within a certain realm.

So shame on you for misrepresenting what was ACTUALLY said and twisting it so that you can have an excuse to whine and regurgitate the usual rhetoric of your camp.

victoryword · Sep 8, 2005

didaskalos said:
Once again you have correctly diagnosed the symptoms and underlieing error.
I call it supersovereignty.
The advocate of this needs proceed no further than just this one concept.
Just sit back and ride the sovereign waves. The word, the gospel, the work of Jesus... all of these are just bit players in the overwhelming (and unknown) sovereign will of God.
This is an offshoot of the doctrine of the unknown God and is (you guessed it) part of the religion of "mere theism".
I'll stick with Jesus.... thank you very much!

Ah, yes, the Lord works in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform

I tell you Dids, you were definitely on the money in that thread you reference in your other post with the "Games people play." The war on the average theological forum has very little to do with Scripture. It seems like there is more argument over words and terms that have been defined, not by God, but by man. Yet these words and terms have been so ingrained in so-called Evangelical Christianity that to dispute the Biblical validity of such a term or to use said term in a way not established by the original "orthodoxy" is akin to blasphemy.

Then there are those concepts of God Himself, that are not necessarily supported by Scripture but will have you tried for heresy if you dispute them because they have been infused into Christian society of lifted up as the standard of true orthodoxy. If you want to be in the "in club" and not be labeled a heretic it is essential that you comply with these concepts or otherwise bend over while we burn you with the "HERETIC" branding iron.

Thank God that there are a group of men and women out there who willingly go against the grain.

Mikecpking · Sep 8, 2005

So going back on topic, how about we discuss the merits of Kenneth Hagin's teaching?

False Teachings From Kenneth Hagin.

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