False Prophets

[timothyu]

Peter called Rome Babylon

 

[apollosdtr]

In Deuteronomy 13:1-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they taught against obeying the Mosaic Law.

Good catch. It applies to those who are following false gods... like this:

Revelation 2:20-23 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce My servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.[21] And I gave her space to repent of her fornication, and she repented not.[22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. [23] And I will kill her children with Death, and all the churches shall know that I am He which searcheth the reins and hearts, and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.KJV (Revelation 6:8)

People are fooled into thinking that eating things sacrificed to idols is always literal. It's not. Just like eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they believe a false doctrine from one who is neither true Prophet nor God.

 

[apollosdtr]

Peter called Rome Babylon

Did he? Wasn't that part of Peter written by (a latin?) man named Silvanus from the literal Babylon?

 

[timothyu]

Topical Bible: Babylon in the New Testament

 

[apollosdtr]

Topical Bible: Babylon in the New Testament

"...“The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son” (1 Pet. 5:13). There are those who think that Babylon is used here in a symbolic manner or in a metaphorical sense and that Peter really meant Rome. ...
After the Babylonian captivity, only a very small group of Jews returned to their land—actually there were fewer than sixty thousand. There was still a great colony of Jews in Babylon. Additional Jews had fled to Babylon when severe persecution began under Claudius in Rome...."
1 Peter Study Guide

The first part of the above quote... I disagree, because I think at least the last 3 verses were written by Silvanus, who was the scribe of the letter... aka Silas of Paul's fellow-travelers?

5:11 To him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
5:12-14 By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand. The [church that is] at Babylon, elected together with [you], saluteth you; and [so doth] Marcus my son. Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace [be] with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.

 

[Servus]

and also, recognizing a false prophet is less a matter of noticing character faults in the person than it is in recognizing the uniqueness of his or her claims.

If they put an important part of the Bible into a light that hardly any Christian church ever before agreed to, you need to be instantly wary.

The whole world wanders after the beast, because of the witness of the false prophet... so it's the mainstream that takes on the mark of the beast.

And if it turns out that the two witnesses are speaking what the mainstream never thought... the mainstream won't be listening.

Like you said, the world wanders after the beast, but the unified body of Christ doesn't. The beast is going to have something new and unique to offer, a special vison. The orthodox unified body of Christ will recognize it as unorthodox and false, just as they do with latter day unique unorthodox visions that have come into existence already.

 

[Servus]

"I have a special vison for you. Something most of the church, the body of Christ, has been blind to for two thousand years. Most Christians will fail to accept this special vison, interpretation, doctrine, theology. So I'll quote passages from the Bible that say few will enter and that God seeks a remnant, to explain why the unified orthodox body of Christ disagrees with it. Most of Christianity is wrong, has always been wrong, but this is right" - Says the false prophet (and those deceived by one).

Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, Jim Jones, David Koresh (the list is endless) - They all had a special unique vison and denounced the vast majority of Christianity as false.

 

[timothyu]

Anything that follows the traditions and ways of man rather than the principles of the Kingdom, are false.

 

[Servus]

Anything that follows the traditions and ways of man rather than the principles of the Kingdom, are false.

The thing is those who have some obscure, esoteric, unorthodox view all claim that orthodox Christianity is the traditions of man. And pretty much only their vison or the one they subscribe to is of the Kingdom and follows God's word. They go on about how wrong the vast majority of Christianity is, and how right they are.

 

[timothyu]

They go on about how wrong the vast majority of Christianity is, and how right they are.

Agree. It should be how right the Gospel of the Kingdom is, not them. How God's will compares to man's, including within any religion. We have centuries of misdeeds to back that up. People are quick to defend their sect before even considering the Kingdom. Jesus set an example of putting God's will first and said it would be the way of the world soon enough, yet man continues to carry on in the old ways, including within their religions.

 

[Servus]

Agree. It should be how right the Gospel of the Kingdom is, not them. How God's will compares to man's, including within any religion. We have centuries of misdeeds to back that up. People are quick to defend their sect before even considering the Kingdom. Jesus set an example of putting God's will first and said it would be the way of the world soon enough, yet man continues to carry on in the old ways, including within their religions.

Are you another Gospel of the Kingdom person who thinks there's two different gospels?

 

[timothyu]

Are you another Gospel of the Kingdom person who thinks there's two different gospels?

As a Christian who follows the teachings of the Christ I say that there, according to Him, is only one gospel/good news.

Matthew 24: 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Luke 16: 15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Mark 1: 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Matthew 4: 23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom...

ETC.

 

[apollosdtr]

And if it turns out that the two witnesses are speaking what the mainstream never thought... the mainstream won't be listening... the multitudes were the blind people.
Jesus' own prophecies fill the parables of Matthew... and overflow into the Revelation, where Jezebel becomes Babylon by being tossed onto a bed... of adultery, because of her children who'd been called My servants by Jesus. There is no chance of adultery apart from marriage... which used to include the betrothal.

Like you said, the world wanders after the beast, but the unified body of Christ doesn't. The beast is going to have something new and unique to offer, a special vison. The orthodox unified body of Christ will recognize it as unorthodox and false, just as they do with latter day unique unorthodox visions that have come into existence already.

Do you believe the Kingdom Gospel given to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel?

 

[apollosdtr]

Like you said, the world wanders after the beast, but the unified body of Christ doesn't. The beast is going to have something new and unique to offer, a special vison. The orthodox unified body of Christ will recognize it as unorthodox and false, just as they do with latter day unique unorthodox visions that have come into existence already.

(bold added)
Greek Orthodoxy: The Synod of Jerusalem and the Confession of Dositheus, A. D. 1672.

The "body of Christ" is one of Paul's Mysteries.

"I have a special vison for you. Something most of the church, the body of Christ, has been blind to for two thousand years. Most Christians will fail to accept this special vison, interpretation, doctrine, theology. So I'll quote passages from the Bible that say few will enter and that God seeks a remnant, to explain why the unified orthodox body of Christ disagrees with it. Most of Christianity is wrong, has always been wrong, but this is right" - Says the false prophet (and those deceived by one).

Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, Jim Jones, David Koresh (the list is endless) - They all had a special unique vison and denounced the vast majority of Christianity as false.

(bold added)
Joseph Smith uses the "body of Christ", and so do the next three.
But it's not in the "Seven Seals Manuscript" of David Koresh.

The thing is those who have some obscure, esoteric, unorthodox view all claim that orthodox Christianity is the traditions of man. And pretty much only their vison or the one they subscribe to is of the Kingdom and follows God's word. They go on about how wrong the vast majority of Christianity is, and how right they are.

(bold added)
Been there, done that.
Are you mixing the 2 Gospels together?

As a Christian who follows the teachings of the Christ I say that there, according to Him, is only one gospel/good news.

Matthew 24: 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:9-14 [14] And This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all(holos) the world,(kosmos) for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matthew 26:6-13 [13] Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever This Gospel shall be preached in the whole(holos) world,(oikomenh) there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her. (John 12:3)

There's only one Gospel where this woman's works are mentioned.
But it's not in Paul or Barnabus(Hebrews).

 

[Servus]

(bold added)
Greek Orthodoxy: The Synod of Jerusalem and the Confession of Dositheus, A. D. 1672.

The "body of Christ" is one of Paul's Mysteries.


(bold added)
Joseph Smith uses the "body of Christ", and so do the next three.
But it's not in the "Seven Seals Manuscript" of David Koresh.


(bold added)
Been there, done that.
Are you mixing the 2 Gospels together?



Matthew 24:9-14 [14] And This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all(holos) the world,(kosmos) for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matthew 26:6-13 [13] Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever This Gospel shall be preached in the whole(holos) world,(oikomenh) there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her. (John 12:3)

There's only one Gospel where this woman's works are mentioned.
But it's not in Paul or Barnabus(Hebrews).

I see you put some extra effort into that changing text size, but it doesn't really explain or answer anything.

 

[Servus]

As a Christian who follows the teachings of the Christ I say that there, according to Him, is only one gospel/good news.

Matthew 24: 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Luke 16: 15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Mark 1: 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Matthew 4: 23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom...

ETC.

I know what the gospel of the kingdom is as far as the orthodox view goes. But others are using the term to mean something else. Just the fact that you quoted from Luke, tells me you're probably not on that same track. Although most Christians simply just say The Gospel.

 

[timothyu]

Although most Christians simply just say The Gospel.

If one pays attention to the whole Bible, let alone Jesus' teachings, they should be aware that God insists we put His will ahead of our own. Period. Yet we seem to have reversed that. How many Christians make it all about themselves and what is in it for them. Self interest in their salvation and not Jesus' good news. Jesus made it clear in the Lord's Prayer it is not about us but about the Father, and His good news was about the Father returning to govern over us, not about us primarily as so many would like to think. It all focuses on the Father, not on us.

 

[Servus]

Do you believe the Kingdom Gospel given to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel?

I believe what most other Christians believe. Like with the guy in the video I posted in another thread, I understand what's being said, but I'm still waiting for a definitive conclusion. Whereas this explanation of the Gospel of the Kingdom is quite orthodox, quite understandable and it comes to a conclusion.

 

[apollosdtr]

If one pays attention to the whole Bible, let alone Jesus' teachings, they should be aware that God insists we put His will ahead of our own. Period. Yet how many Christians make it all about themselves and what is in it for them. Self interest in their salvation. Jesus made it clear in the Lord's Prayer it is not about us but about the Father, and His good news was about the Father returning to govern over us, not about us primarily as so many would like to think. It all focuses on the Father, not on us.

wow... that's the same thought I've been having for the past week... the whole "what's in it for them" focus.

Matthew 6:31-34 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?[32] (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your Heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.[33] But seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness;* and all these things shall be added unto you.[34] Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
________________
* Physical, not vicarious.

 

[apollosdtr]

I see you put some extra effort into that changing text size, but it doesn't really explain or answer anything.

It did for me. I looked up Paul Washer. Not a big fan of Calvinism, myself.

I know what the gospel of the kingdom is as far as the orthodox view goes. But others are using the term to mean something else. Just the fact that you quoted from Luke, tells me you're probably not on that same track. Although most Christians simply just say The Gospel.

You really don't know what's orthodox for the Kingdom Gospel, since you don't follow it... you're like a born-blind man trying to describe the color blue.

I wish you could be comfortable speaking for yourself alone, without resorting to the usual marginalization attempts by the majority... for which I'm fairly certain you have not been chosen as spokesperson.