False Converts

[Hammster]

Is there such a thing as a false convert, one that may look like a convert, but really they aren't saved? They may even know a bunch of doctrine, or said a prayer at an invitation, and say and do the right things. But inwardly, there is no new birth or growth.

 

[Steeno7]

Yep.

 

[Hammster]

Follow up: would it be possible to identify them?

 

[Steeno7]

Follow up: would it be possible to identify them?

Not my job, man.

 

[Lollerskates]

Is there such a thing as a false convert, one that may look like a convert, but really they aren't saved? They may even know a bunch of doctrine, or said a prayer at an invitation, and say and do the right things. But inwardly, there is no new birth or growth.

They would be tantamount to Pharisees in the Hebrew days. But, it would be hard to determine who is saved because their sanctification may happen over scores of years. And, I can't really judge: every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future.

 

[Hammster]

Not my job, man.

Really? Then how do you identify false teachers?

 

[sdowney717]

Follow up: would it be possible to identify them?

1 Tim 5

24 Some men’s sins are clearly evident, preceding them to judgment, but those of some men follow later. 25 Likewise, the good works of some are clearly evident, and those that are otherwise cannot be hidden.

this verse is in agreement with Christ about either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad.

Good works God will bring to light along with evil works to judgement, maybe not right away, but eventually.

Sometimes you will know right away, other times no.
The church is to judge those inside the church, but not judge those outside the church.
By judgement is do they walk according to the flesh, practicing sins of the flesh, or do they walk according to the Spirit, led by the Holy Spirit?

Paul presents a list of the fruits of the flesh and a list of the fruits of the Spirit.
Why bother with these lists if we are not to care what people are doing?

 

[Steeno7]

Really? Then how do you identify false teachers?

By their "bad" fruit. But, you didn't ask about false teachers.

 

[Hammster]

By their "bad" fruit. But, you didn't ask about false teachers.

If they have bad fruit, wouldn't that make them false converts?

 

[Steeno7]

If they have bad fruit, wouldn't that make them false converts?

It would make them false teachers. Do even true converts exhibit at all times only good fruit?

 

[Hammster]

It would make them false teachers. Do even true converts exhibit at all times only good fruit?

Good point. I'm not arguing. Just fleshing this out.

Do you think it's possible to be saved and yet show no signs of growth?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Is there such a thing as a false convert, one that may look like a convert, but really they aren't saved? They may even know a bunch of doctrine, or said a prayer at an invitation, and say and do the right things. But inwardly, there is no new birth or growth.

The Bible speaks of "false brethren" in 2 Cor 11:26 and Gal 2:4 (NASB). They are not saved, but have put on a false front. That is different than those who think they are saved because of what they do, such as as the crowd who appealed to Jesus on the basis of their works.

The OP properly left out the key regarding whether one is a true convert or a false convert. Faith. The OP did not mention what they believed, but only what they said and did.

To say "I'm saved/a Christian" is not the same thing as being one.

So, a "false convert" is one who thinks they are a Christian, but have never placed their trust and faith in Jesus Christ for eternal life.

Regarding the "inward" stuff, no human can see the new birth. We can only see deeds, which may or may not validate the new birth. There are many Mormons whose lives are better than a lot of evangelicals, as an example.

The ONLY people are are truly saved are those who have placed their faith and trust solely in Jesus Christ for eternal life. No one else. Regardless of what they say or do.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If they have bad fruit, wouldn't that make them false converts?

Who said that false teachers are converts? The Bible speaks of false teachers in Matt 7:15-19. We know them by their fruit. Which means by what they teach, which is not in accord with Scripture.

This is a different issue than false converts.

 

[Steeno7]

Good point. I'm not arguing. Just fleshing this out.

Do you think it's possible to be saved and yet show no signs of growth?

I think that the fruit of the Spirit of Christ will be evidenced in our lives. But that does not mean we are to be fruit inspectors, either of ourselves or of others. We are all works in progress and God isn't done with any of us yet.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Good point. I'm not arguing. Just fleshing this out.

Do you think it's possible to be saved and yet show no signs of growth?

That was Paul's main concern regarding those he had evangelized.

Galatians 4:11
I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this reason, when I could endure it no longer, I also sent to find out about your faith, for fear that the tempter might have tempted you, and our labor would be in vain.

While some probably think Paul was doubting the salvation of some in those congregations, in fact, he was concerned that there wasn't spiritual growth among some in those congregations.

Given 2 Cor 12:20-21, and the fact that Paul throughout both of his epistles to the Corinthians he acknowleged their sanctified state (saved), there is no reason to think he was doubting the salvation of those in Gal or Thess.

 

[DeaconDean]

I once sat under a Sunday School teacher who said that God would not recognize any marriage unless it was performed by a minister.

I guess after 27 years, my wife and I are "shacking up" and living in sin, since we were married by a "magistrate" (Justice of the Peace).

So tell me who the "false teacher" is?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Lollerskates]

I once sat under a Sunday School teacher who said that God would not recognize any marriage unless it was performed by a minister.

I guess after 27 years, my wife and I are "shacking up" and living in sin, since we were married by a "magistrate" (Justice of the Peace).

So tell me who the "false teacher" is?

God Bless

Till all are one.

Heck no bro. Don't even get me started on "marriage = monogamous sex" issue. My example is, "what if you and someone else are on a deserted island...if you have sex with her/him, are they still unwed?" After all, if no one else officiates it, God will. Who officiates Adam and Eve (one could argue the Word of God walking with them did)?

 

[Hammster]

I think that the fruit of the Spirit of Christ will be evidenced in our lives. But that does not mean we are to be fruit inspectors, either of ourselves or of others. We are all works in progress and God isn't done with any of us yet.

What about where it says to make your calling and election sure? Or to remove the plank out of your own eye before worrying about the speck in your brother's eye? Shouldn't there be some sort of fruit inspection?

 

[Hammster]

.

 

[Hammster]

The Bible speaks of "false brethren" in 2 Cor 11:26 and Gal 2:4 (NASB). They are not saved, but have put on a false front. That is different than those who think they are saved because of what they do, such as as the crowd who appealed to Jesus on the basis of their works.

The OP properly left out the key regarding whether one is a true convert or a false convert. Faith. The OP did not mention what they believed, but only what they said and did.

To say "I'm saved/a Christian" is not the same thing as being one.

So, a "false convert" is one who thinks they are a Christian, but have never placed their trust and faith in Jesus Christ for eternal life.

Regarding the "inward" stuff, no human can see the new birth. We can only see deeds, which may or may not validate the new birth. There are many Mormons whose lives are better than a lot of evangelicals, as an example.

The ONLY people are are truly saved are those who have placed their faith and trust solely in Jesus Christ for eternal life. No one else. Regardless of what they say or do.

So they have a said faith, but not a real faith, correct?