fallout from roe vs wade

mama2one · Jun 25, 2022

from an article in local paper about adoption:

latter half of 20 th century private adoptions dominated

with easier access to birth control & legalization of abortions reduced no. of babies avail.

int'l adoptions have also dropped from nearly 23,000 in 2004 to fewer than 3,000 in 2019

cont' below

mama2one · Jun 25, 2022

while prospective families vastly outnumber children available for adoption through the private industry, there is a shortage of families willing to adopt from foster care

Juan777 · Jun 25, 2022

BravoM said:
Yes. Abstinence is one of many choices for many to get out of stay poverty.

Find a job. ANY job is better than no job.

Don't lower standards and find a good man or woman respectively, get and STAY married.

Plan to have children. Controlling urges isn't hard.

Don't use credit unless you have to and only low interest, non-major corporation backed credit.

Do not have kids out of wedlock.

At a minimum, these must be adhered to.

Lets not be naive. Being gainfully employed is better than no job. If you are not gainfully employed then it does not count as a job. In modern society there are homeless people that have jobs. That is not acceptable. If a job does not even mean escape from.poverty enough to have a roof over your head. It defeats the purpose.

Yoy are still missing the point. If you are married and broke and have an unplanned child then what is the difference between being unwed and broke? Marriage does not mean money comes from heaven to take care of everything.

mama2one · Jun 25, 2022

oops error

IceJad · Jun 25, 2022

mama2one said:
-it's said that the reversal falls heavily on poor people who will now have children they can ill avoid to have & families will fall deeper into poverty
please don't say well they should know better/not have more kids cause it doesn't work that way

I think adoption should be promoted & heavily promoted for such families
we had a local Pastor who promoted adoption & one hundred families from the church stepped up to adopt

the problem is SO many Christians wanted roe vs wade overturned yet these same Christians NEVER step up
only 5% of Christians have adopted children

come on Christians step up and act
look into adopting a child!

I have real difficulty understanding why Americans are so up in arms about Roe v Wade. So much so that there is no middle ground. If I'm reading the whole situation is just that the right to legislate falls back to the individual states. It not like abortion is illegal in the entire US.

All the media and activists make it seems like it is be all end all. All rush to emotional outburst.

It also fail to make sense on why this affect poorer families. There is something called family planning and safe sex. Unless of course people just have unprotected sex whenever they fancy. Being poor doesn't equate to being stupid. It is a poor excuse (no pun intended) that you accidentally conceived a child.

If you're not financially capable supporting more children then choose the sensible option don't have unprotected sex during your partner's most fertile period. Don't dump that responsibility to think on others. Is like a diabetic saying why I can't eat cake with frosting.

If you so happen to conceive and you're hoping to give for adoption then do the leg work. Go find organizations that will help in adoption.

I really cannot fathom why everything have to be done by the government for you.

Blade · Jun 25, 2022

It was never a constitutional right. Everyone knew that. People can still get abortions.. NY just passed some bill you can get up up to birth. Its just so sad huh.. you have to put up with life a new born baby. Maybe this is where "I wish you were never born" came from. Some care more about self the others.

IceJad · Jun 25, 2022

Blade said:
Its just so sad huh.. you have to put up with life a new born baby. Maybe this is where "I wish you were never born" came from.

There are situation where abortion is a necessary option. If the child is a product of sexual assault or the baby is not viable or it presents a fatal outcome to the mother. In those cases I won't fault the mother for exercising the option. No two circumstances are identical.

But I share your sentiment when it comes to abortion from hedonistic lifestyle choices. It is punishing the baby for what is clearly the mother's own irresponsibility and inability for self-restraint.

Larniavc · Jun 25, 2022

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
No doubt you do, as it reinforces your worldview. I much prefer actual sin be shamed and have a certain stigma rather than good standards and morals.

It is. It’s simply that you are the sinner and do not like to be called on it.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jun 25, 2022

Larnievc said:
It is. It’s simply that you are the sinner and do not like to be called on it.

Huh? I know I am a sinner, I know I have done things I am not proud of. Part of the motivation for not being proud of those actions is stigma and shame. The stigma and shame however is not the same as what you consider shameful or evil. It's a different standard.

Larniavc · Jun 25, 2022

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
It's a different standard.

It’s a quixotic standard. What? Picking up sticks on the wrong day is the same a child murder? Says the Christian.

Not so the atheist who understands that some things are worse than others.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jun 25, 2022

Larnievc said:
It’s a quixotic standard. What? Picking up sticks on the wrong day is the same a child murder? Says the Christian.

Not so the atheist who understands that some things are worse than others.

? There's nothing wrong with picking up sticks and child murder is a serious crime whereas the other activity is rather benign. What I was talking about in the initial post is returning to a Christian sexual standard instead of the modern sexual standard. Where things like sex outside of marriage or having bastards is considered shameful to some degree and stigmatized.

Skye1300 · Jun 25, 2022

Juan777 said:
Lets not be naive. Being gainfully employed is better than no job. If you are not gainfully employed then it does not count as a job. In modern society there are homeless people that have jobs. That is not acceptable. If a job does not even mean escape from.poverty enough to have a roof over your head. It defeats the purpose.

Yoy are still missing the point. If you are married and broke and have an unplanned child then what is the difference between being unwed and broke? Marriage does not mean money comes from heaven to take care of everything.

They can still choose to put the child up for adoption.

Juan777 · Jun 25, 2022

Skye1300 said:
They can still choose to put the child up for adoption.

Of course, but my reply was intended for @BravoM , who believes by adhering to a certain set of principles one can avoid poverty.
Sending a child up for adoption does not fix poverty. What solutions do you have to get (married) couples out of poverty so they can take care of their kids that doesn't involve giving their child away to someone else or murdering their child in the womb? Now, we know the bible says that God provides for all our needs according to His riches and glory through Jesus Christ (Phil 4:19)? But will He provide needs to prevent divorces or families losing their children? Is abortion a lack of faith in Phil 4:19?

Skye1300 · Jun 25, 2022

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
? There's nothing wrong with picking up sticks and child murder is a serious crime whereas the other activity is rather benign. What I was talking about in the initial post is returning to a Christian sexual standard instead of the modern sexual standard. Where things like sex outside of marriage or having bastards is considered shameful to some degree and stigmatized.

I agree. Instead today, being virtuous is a stigma and something young girls are made to feel ashamed of. Being whorish is something to be proud of these days. Then murdering the baby that results from it can give them even more kudos points. It's sad.

Skye1300 · Jun 25, 2022

Juan777 said:
Of course, but my reply was intended for @BravoM , who believes by adhering to a certain set of principles one can avoid poverty.
Sending a child up for adoption does not fix poverty. What solutions do you have to get (married) couples out of poverty so they can take care of their kids that doesn't involve giving their child away to someone else or murdering their child in the womb? Now, we know the bible says that God provides for all our needs according to His riches and glory through Jesus Christ (Phil 4:19)? But will He provide needs to prevent divorces or families losing their children? Is abortion a lack of faith in Phil 4:19?

Well a couple can bring in 2 paychecks. I don't see why two people working 40-50 hrs a week even at minimum wage can't save up enough money to get out of poverty. They just have to not live above their means and sacrifice a little to save up.

Larniavc · Jun 26, 2022

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
What I was talking about in the initial post is returning to a Christian sexual standard instead of the modern sexual standard.

Why return to that standard but not standards around observing to Sabbath? Seems like you’re picking and choosing which bits of the Bible you want to follow.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jun 26, 2022

Larnievc said:
Why return to that standard but not standards around observing to Sabbath? Seems like you’re picking and choosing which bits of the Bible you want to follow.

Well for one thing, I am under the New Testament law and not the Old Testament. Interesting thing about the Old Testament is that even rules such as the one you disparage have the purpose, to enforce the Holiness of the Sabbath. It's to convey the seriousness and sacredness of the day God rested on and to violate it, to violate the law, brings death. All states run by this principle. Violate the law and you are subject to external force and punishment, death ultimately.

I'm not picking and choosing anything, but Christianity is not ancient Judaism and doesn't operate under the strictness of the Old Testament law. At least not in that case. Not all of the laws and standards of the Old Testament apply any more. That is a rather different topic and if you think that's inconsistent that's fine. But it isn't a substantive criticism of my wishing to return to a better sexual morality than that which is offered by today.

comana · Jun 26, 2022

Skye1300 said:
I agree. Instead today, being virtuous is a stigma and something young girls are made to feel ashamed of. Being whorish is something to be proud of these days. Then murdering the baby that results from it can give them even more kudos points. It's sad.

I’m not buying this.

comana · Jun 26, 2022

Skye1300 said:
Well a couple can bring in 2 paychecks. I don't see why two people working 40-50 hrs a week even at minimum wage can't save up enough money to get out of poverty. They just have to not live above their means and sacrifice a little to save up.

Add in universal vasectomies which can then be reversed upon providing financial ability to support a child.

mama2one · Jun 27, 2022

Skye1300 said:
Well a couple can bring in 2 paychecks. I don't see why two people working 40-50 hrs a week even at minimum wage can't save up enough money to get out of poverty.]

if it's just the couple paying for their place to live, utilities, vehicle, insurance, property taxes, clothing, food

add in a child:

The Cost of Raising A Child in 2022

"This comes with the assumption that the child was born to a middle-income married couple. If the estimated cost would be inflation-adjusted, it would amount to nearly $270,000 in 2022."

fallout from roe vs wade

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