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Falling Away...

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River88

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Okay, well I'm not exactly sure where the verse is located, but I know The Bible says something like "anyone who has been enlightened by the Holy Spirit and then falls away, cannot be forgiven."
I've heard different translations from this, but I was curious about what other people thought about it. And when explaining, I thought people should keep in mind the story of the apostle Peter. Did he not fall away and come back?
And that brings up an interesting question...when does it come to the point where one "falls away"? Is it just if you are a strong believer and then if you stumble back into a lifesyle of sin, you cannot be forgiven or what? If so, for that too, then why would they have "rededications" (people rededicating their life back to Jesus) practiced at Chrisitan churches?
 
River88 said:
Okay, well I'm not exactly sure where the verse is located, but I know The Bible says something like "anyone who has been enlightened by the Holy Spirit and then falls away, cannot be forgiven."
Mark 3.29, Luke 12.10, Matthew 12:31


I've heard different translations from this, but I was curious about what other people thought about it. And when explaining, I thought people should keep in mind the story of the apostle Peter. Did he not fall away and come back?
I think the above verse is meant for apostates (like me), but it even confuses commentators.

And that brings up an interesting question...when does it come to the point where one "falls away"? Is it just if you are a strong believer and then if you stumble back into a lifesyle of sin, you cannot be forgiven or what? If so, for that too, then why would they have "rededications" (people rededicating their life back to Jesus) practiced at Chrisitan churches?
I would guess that the person who inserted this tradition was trying to prevent those people who tired of waiting, from falling away. Unfortunately, the writer chose a stick instead of a carrot. One way I measure what Jesus actually said as compared to what some well-meaning preacher placed on his lips, is Compassion. Please notice the capital C. Jesus was, above all else, compassionate. Anything that contradicts that is probably someone else's thinking.

Hope that helps.
 
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pentecostal girl

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Okay, well I'm not exactly sure where the verse is located, but I know The Bible says something like "anyone who has been enlightened by the Holy Spirit and then falls away, cannot be forgiven."
I don't know if this is the verse you are talking about, but here it is Hebrew 6:
4-6 " For it is impossible for those who were once enlightend, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word o God and the powers of the age to come. if the fall away, to renew them again to repeintance, simce thay crucify again forthemselves the Son od God, and put Him to an open shame."
The sin in the bible that Jesus strictly forbids is blasphemy against the spirit. Matthew 12:31"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. all verse came form KJV. I hope God keeps blessing over and over again. I you have any questions feel free to ask
GOd Bless
 
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Shekinahs

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River88 said:
Okay, well I'm not exactly sure where the verse is located, but I know The Bible says something like "anyone who has been enlightened by the Holy Spirit and then falls away, cannot be forgiven."
I've heard different translations from this, but I was curious about what other people thought about it. And when explaining, I thought people should keep in mind the story of the apostle Peter. Did he not fall away and come back?
And that brings up an interesting question...when does it come to the point where one "falls away"? Is it just if you are a strong believer and then if you stumble back into a lifesyle of sin, you cannot be forgiven or what? If so, for that too, then why would they have "rededications" (people rededicating their life back to Jesus) practiced at Chrisitan churches?
Blessings River,

I'm not sure what verse that is. :(
I think that if a person has been shown mysteries and truths and does not honor what the Spirit has revealed to them then that's pretty bad. Which is why prophets carried such burden. After the Spirit of God took them up within the heavens and showed them truths, they could not turn back on that understanding even if the world thought they were crazy. I tend to think if God honors us with revelation and we turn our backs on what has been revealed to us then we may not get another chance at seeing the mysteries of God. The mysteries of God make no sense to the carnal mind (at best it may make sense to our spiritual mind) and some people can not accept the "bizarre-ness" of God's truths so they let it go.

I think when you say "fall away" you are referring to backsliding. Backsliding can be forgiven and when someone has stopped backsliding they may rededicate themselves in front of the church if they feel a need for that.



~ShekinahMoon~
 
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There is an interesting parallel here. "Falling away" is the result of a person intentionally reverting back to carnal short term passions. God's Spirit, is an attitude of mind, just as human nature is an attitude of mind. You will serve one or the other. You cannot have both. We all have free will (choice), You cannot serve both God and mammon.

There is another point to consider, and that is being deceived, or leaving Biblical Christianity for another form of pseudo=Christianity, that Jesus warns about in Matt. 24:5.
 
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I do not profess to know all there is to know about that verse, but I do know that those whom God has truly saved, can never "fall away." "My Father has given them to me and NO ONE can snatch them out of my hand" Once in the arms of Christ, He will not let you go, He will not. IT's times like these when I'm glad that I am a calvanist, a seven point calvanist! God is not slack concerning salvation. Notice the word "if" if they fall away. Can they fall away, No! But IF they did, thats what would happen. Well, those are my muddeled thoughts, take it or leave. it

Ben
 
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pentecostal girl

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I do not profess to know all there is to know about that verse, but I do know that those whom God has truly saved, can never "fall away."
What do you mean be "truly saved". Most of the time when people hand there life over to the Lord truly mean it. But sometimes people get caught up in wordly things, and just quit on Jesus all toghether. Light and darkness can't dwell in the same place at once, So how can a heart full of sin have Jesus in it? If people have Jesus in there hearts they shouldn't want to go back to there old ways. When we accept Jesus in our hearts we become a new creation! Any way back to my question, what do you mean be "truly saved"? My best friend says this all the time when we get into these types of disscussions, maybe you could explain it to me.
GOd BLess
 
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SavedByGrace3

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I think this has been covered in separate threads, but it is good for a review.
Heb 6:1-6 has to be interpreted and understood in the context in which it was written.

The context of the passage which actually begins in chapter 5 verse 12 is not salvation. It is doctrine. He is talking about viable doctrine, babyhood "foundational" doctrine, and the possibility of going on to a mature "perfect" doctrine.

Eventually, as he gets to verses 3-8 of chapter 6, he is showing how unworkable the Jewish Christian's doctrine is going to be if they attempt to alter the foundational teaching about repentance from dead works. The Jewish Christians were wanting to take the priesthood that was instituted in the NT and merge it with the priesthood of Aaron that existed in the OT. Doing so would totally mess up the NT concept of Jesus being a sacrifice who died once and for all. The OT sacrifice was offered yearly, so if the OT and NT understanding of the sacrifice for sins were merged, then we would be sacrificing Jesus again and again, something that cannot be done.

Look at the verses in question:

Hebrews 6:1-3 GW
1 With this in mind, we should stop going over the elementary truths about Christ and move on to topics for more mature people. We shouldn't repeat the basics about turning away from the useless things we did and the basics about faith in God.
2 We shouldn't repeat the basic teachings about such things as baptisms, setting people apart for holy tasks, dead people coming back to life, and eternal judgment.
3 If God permits, we will do this.


Notice that nowhere is he talking about salvation. He is talking about going on to a mature and complete doctrinal understanding. He goes on to point out that they will not be able to go on to this complete and mature doctrinal understanding if they do not first stand upon the foundational truths... one of which is "repentance from dead works." It is here that they are stumbling. Dead works are not sins... they are the OT rituals and sacrifices that did not actually wash away sins or bring anyone closer to God. Paul is pointing out that if they take the NT teaching about repentance from dead works and merge it with the OT teachings about yearly sacrificing for sins, then they will have a mongrel doctrine that requires that Jesus go to the cross again and again and again... on a yearly basis.

Hebrews 6:4-6 WNT
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once for all been enlightened, and have tasted the sweetness of the heavenly gift, and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have realized how good the word of God is and how mighty are the powers of the coming Age, and then fell away--
6 it is impossible, I say, to keep bringing them back to a new repentance, for, to their own undoing, they are repeatedly crucifying the Son of God afresh and exposing Him to open shame.


Paul is showing how unworkable this hybrid doctrine would be. "It (the hybrid doctrine they are creating) is impossible" because it would require the believer to go through repentance from dead works again and again just like they had to in the OT. This hybrid doctrine would have Jesus repeatedly going to the cross every year just like the OT law required. It is the hybrid doctrine that is not viable, unworkable, and that would expose Jesus to open shame ever year as He was sacrifice again and again and again.
 
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didaskalos said:

Paul is showing how unworkable this hybrid doctrine would be. "It (the hybrid doctrine they are creating) is impossible" because it would require the believer to go through repentance from dead works again and again just like they had to in the OT. This hybrid doctrine would have Jesus repeatedly going to the cross every year just like the OT law required. It is the hybrid doctrine that is not viable, unworkable, and that would expose Jesus to open shame ever year as He was sacrifice again and again and again.
It is very kind of you to be so kind! But I think the passage is a restatement of the gospel verses I gave. It is written during a time when the church is sufferiong a large loss of membership. The warning is very dire and very clear. Apostates not only risk destroying themselves, but embarrass the church and cause Christ untold suffering. Many have attempted to be lenient on this, but it just doesn't work very well.

But the real test is, what happens when a person falls away? I've done so on several occasions. Every time I have recieved new insight while out on my own. And each time I have more compassion for those who just can't believe. The warning is the warning, but life is life. All you can do is all you can do. But again, thanks for being kind. I think in the long run, that is the best policy. :)
 
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What do you mean be "truly saved"?

What do I mean? I am talking about saving faith, faith that dosen't just quit. And this leads in to another question, just because we "make a desision for Christ" does that really make us saved. Is everyone who says this going to heaven, no, of course not. I think there are quite a few delusioned Christians walking around that have no idea what sin is, who God is, what regeneration means. Can Christians fall away? No.

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."

Christians cannot lose their salvation. I for one, do not want to believe in a God that may, sooner or later, let me go. Paul knew who he believed, he knew who called Him:

"for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day."

As Christians, we can be assured, yes we can know, yes we do have a God who saves completely. Who is a Christian? The one who perseveres to the end.

Hope this helps!

In Christ
Ben
 
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pentecostal girl

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"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."
Who is a Christian? The one who perseveres to the end.
I'm talking about the christian that doesn't stay faithful to Jesus, People who believe osas believe that people who fall into a LIFE of sin, meaning never repenting of those sins, will still go to heaven. I disagree with that. If you notice the scripture that I have posted above states "My SHEEP hear my voice and I know them, and they follow me. Jesus is known as the shepard and we are called his sheep in the bible, right! We'll to me sheep means people who are followers of Christ, not ones who fall away into the world. In John 15:1-2 it says " Iam the true vine, and My father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit." If you don't bear christ like fruit, then how can Jesus remanin in your heart? If you would like to know where the fruits of the spirit are, they are in Galations 5:20. Happy Thanksgiving

p.s I got these out of the NKJ
 
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pmarquette

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Here is the passage you spoke of :
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The context here is : those who know God , who serve God , who willingly turn their backs on him and serve the enemy instead . Not those who by way of trajedy , offense , and circumstances .... kick it in neutral for awhile ....

Run back to God , pour out your heart , step back into His presence :
Prov 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
Psa 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.

We all fall , and are afflicted , but as long as we get back up , we are reconciled anew with God , through the name and the blood of Jesus
 
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If we're trying to remain in Christ, if it's up to us, then we're garunteed to fall into sin, and eventually fall away. The point is is that it's Christ who holds us. Our works don't make us be closer to God, yes they are the fruits of the Spirit. By the way, sarcasm is never a good way to get you point accross.
 
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pentecostal girl

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Our works don't make us be closer to God, yes they are the fruits of the Spirit.
I never said that our works make us closer to God. The bible says that you should know christians by the fruit they bear. Fruits such as peace,longsuffering,faithfulness, joy, love, patience, kindness, and goodness. The fruits that we bear set us apart from others. If we don't bear christ-like fruit, how is possible for Jesus to still be in our hearts.
Not those who by way of trajedy , offense , and circumstances .... kick it in neutral for awhile ....
please explain this to me. I don't see how you can "kick it in neutral for awhile" By this do you mean that we can put God on hold, so we can figure out issues. To me these are the times when Jesus really wants us to put our trust in him, It's during these times that our faith in Jesus grows stronger if we allow him to take hold of it. You can't put God on hold for awhile. My point being you can't walk in light and darkness at the same time, it's impossible. So how is it possible for you to "kick it in neutral for awhile?" Hope God keeps blessin you over and over again!
God Bless

 
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Hey,I'm sorry about that, I didn't mean to be rude.

Yes,I aggree completely with you in that 'Christians cannot kick it into neutral for awhile.' I see it over and over around me, and I myself fall into the trap more often then I'd like. All we are doing is quenching the Holy Sprit. Whats that verse in 2 Corinthians that talks about God's grace being made perfect in our weakness, it is always sufficient for us, no matter how trying the circumstances. There is no such thing as a "neutral" Christian.

Sorry about the misunderstanding, it sounds like we're both on the same page.

In Christ
 
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