Falling away from grace

[Tellyontellyon]

I listened to an online sermon and the preacher was talking about salvation.
Once you are saved that is it! You can't lose it.
If a person does lose it, then that means they were never really saved and therefore not truly Christian.

Why is that? It's like saying we have no choice either way? Where does this idea come from and is it an extreme position, over extrapolating some statement, or is this really how things are.

I found this statement from Paul that seems to suggest that Grace can be fallen away from... or am I misunderstanding?

Galatians 5:1-6
[1]It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
[2]Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
[3]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
[4]You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
[5]For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
[6]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Thank you

 

[Ceallaigh]

Well Calvinism teaches that we can't lose our salvation, so you were probably listening to a Calvinist preacher. The idea in Calvinism is that God predestined a certain number of people to become saved, who are called the Elect. Meaning you have absolutely no choice in the matter of being saved or condemned. It's completely up to the sovereignty if God. Calvinists say they have 120 verses to back this up.

 

[NomNomPizza]

I listened to an online sermon and the preacher was talking about salvation.
Once you are saved that is it! You can't lose it.
If a person does lose it, then that means they were never really saved and therefore not truly Christian.

Why is that? It's like saying we have no choice either way? Where does this idea come from and is it an extreme position, over extrapolating some statement, or is this really how things are.

I found this statement from Paul that seems to suggest that Grace can be fallen away from... or am I misunderstanding?

Galatians 5:1-6
[1]It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
[2]Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
[3]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
[4]You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
[5]For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
[6]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Thank you

Eternal life wouldn't be eternal in first place if you could lose it ? Simple right?

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Eternal life wouldn't be eternal in first place if you could lose it ? Simple right?

But before your dead? Before judgement day?

 

[NomNomPizza]

But before your dead? Before judgement day?

Only if you obtain it after you die that would make sense , but since you "have it " so present tense then you alredy have eternal right now.
1 John 5:13

 

[NomNomPizza]

But before your dead? Before judgement day?

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

 

[d taylor]

A person can not lose their Eternal Life once they have believed in The Messiah for God's free gift.

What you may be speaking of when you say (a person was never really saved). Is there are people who do not trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life but instead they look to actions they have or are doing basically trying to earn God's free gift of Eternal Life. But that is not the way God gives out his free gift of Eternal Life.

These people can be very religious kind of like the shiny fruit on the outside but actually dead on the inside.

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s
bones and all uncleanness.

 

[Ceallaigh]

The other idea, basically Arminianism, is that you can't lose your salvation, but you can leave your salvation.

 

[Ceallaigh]

 

[SkyWriting]

I listened to an online sermon and the preacher was talking about salvation.
Once you are saved that is it! You can't lose it.
If a person does lose it, then that means they were never really saved and therefore not truly Christian.

Why is that? It's like saying we have no choice either way? Where does this idea come from and is it an extreme position, over extrapolating some statement, or is this really how things are.

I found this statement from Paul that seems to suggest that Grace can be fallen away from... or am I misunderstanding?

Galatians 5:1-6
[1]It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
[2]Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
[3]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
[4]You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
[5]For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
[6]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Thank you

It's a great question. I've concluded they are talking about legalism and falling back on the law for salvation rather than Grace. So the only "Backsliding" or "leaving the faith" or "losing salvation" that people can be rehabilitated from - is the backsliding into legalism. The Old Covenant.

God never recalls Jesus back down off the cross. Salvation is always there and free. But people erect barriers so they can no longer live up to God's standards, in their mind.

 

[LightBearer]

"Once saved always saved" is not a bible teaching. The Apostle Paul warned anointed, born again Christians that they could lose their salvation if they willfully practiced sin.

For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition. Anyone who has disregarded the Law of Moses dies without compassion on the testimony of two or three. How much greater punishment do you think a person will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God and who has regarded as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt? For we know the One who said: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again: “Jehovah* will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

However, keep remembering the former days in which, after you were enlightened, you endured a great struggle along with sufferings. At times you were publicly exposed* both to reproaches and to tribulations, and at times you shared with those who were having such an experience. For you expressed sympathy for those in prison and you accepted joyfully the plundering of your belongings, knowing that you yourselves have a better and an enduring possession.

Therefore, do not throw away your boldness, which will be richly rewarded. For you need endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the fulfillment of the promise. For yet “a very little while,” and “the one who is coming will arrive and will not delay.” “But my righteous one will live by reason of faith,” and “if he shrinks back, I have no pleasure in him.” Now we are not the sort who shrink back to destruction, but the sort who have faith for the preserving of our lives.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Calvinism: Since the Elect were chosen from the foundation of the world, then they are irresistibly converted and regenerated, and therefore can by no means fall away.

Arminianism: Since election is about God's foreknowledge of those who would choose to believe, then those who came to faith can voluntarily also abandon the faith as well.

These are the two main strands of modern Protestantism, with very, very few exceptions (e.g. Lutheranism) virtually all Protestants fall either in the Calvinist or Arminian camps--or somewhere between the two. And that is largely to do with the fact that virtually all modern Protestantism (again, with the exception of Lutheranism) is more-or-less broadly Reformed in theology. And the Reformed tradition produced both Five Point Calvinism and Arminianism (Jacob Arminius was a Dutch Reformed theologian).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I listened to an online sermon and the preacher was talking about salvation.
Once you are saved that is it! You can't lose it.
If a person does lose it, then that means they were never really saved and therefore not truly Christian.

Why is that? It's like saying we have no choice either way? Where does this idea come from and is it an extreme position, over extrapolating some statement, or is this really how things are.

I found this statement from Paul that seems to suggest that Grace can be fallen away from... or am I misunderstanding?

Galatians 5:1-6
[1]It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
[2]Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
[3]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
[4]You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
[5]For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
[6]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Thank you

Christians can lose their salvation if they consistently choose sin over God's will.

The guy you were listening to was what is known as a Calvinist. Calvinism is a harsh view of God that I don't believe fits with God's nature, and the bible as a whole. I discuss the Calvinistic view here Is Predestination real? | Everybody Matters Ministry that page is not related to your topic just the topic of predestination.

 

[Soyeong]

I listened to an online sermon and the preacher was talking about salvation.
Once you are saved that is it! You can't lose it.
If a person does lose it, then that means they were never really saved and therefore not truly Christian.

Why is that? It's like saying we have no choice either way? Where does this idea come from and is it an extreme position, over extrapolating some statement, or is this really how things are.

I found this statement from Paul that seems to suggest that Grace can be fallen away from... or am I misunderstanding?

Galatians 5:1-6
[1]It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
[2]Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
[3]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
[4]You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
[5]For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
[6]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Thank you

There wouldn't be many verses encouraging us to persevere or warning against falling away if that were not possible. There is nothing from the outside that can pluck us from the Father's hand and we can't loose our salvation on accident, but it is clear to me that people can choose to turn their back on God. I don't see any reason to think that someone can live in sin while having their salvation secure because they said a prayer. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, so living in obedience to God's law is what it means to receive the gift of Jesus saving us from living in transgression of it. There can certainly be people who have such a poor understanding of salvation that they were never saved in spite of thinking that they have been saved, however, it seems disingenuous to me to suggest every person who falls away was never saved in the first place. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, so that is what it means to be under grace, but yes, people can fall from grace by relying on works of the law instead of God's law.

 

[aiki]

I listened to an online sermon and the preacher was talking about salvation.
Once you are saved that is it! You can't lose it.
If a person does lose it, then that means they were never really saved and therefore not truly Christian.

Why is that? It's like saying we have no choice either way? Where does this idea come from and is it an extreme position, over extrapolating some statement, or is this really how things are.

God doesn't ask us if we want to be created; He doesn't confer with us about our physical characteristics, or parents, or time and place of birth; we have no say in the basic personality He gives to us. This total autonomy is, in part, what makes God who He is.

The Bible says God moves toward the lost person quite apart from what they might want. In fact, God approaches the lost person in love, persuading the lost person to faith in Christ when that person is fouled in sin and His enemy, living in open rebellion toward Him (Ephesians 2:1-3; Colossians 1:21).

God doesn't ask permission of the lost person before He moves to save him/her. He knows if He did, they would always spurn His offer of salvation, caught in sin as they are. Why, then, does it seem strange that, having saved a person, God doesn't give that person the power to undo what He has done? As I've pointed out, He doesn't give us the freedom to undo a great many things He has done.

I found this statement from Paul that seems to suggest that Grace can be fallen away from... or am I misunderstanding?

Galatians 5:1-6
[1]It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
[2]Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
[3]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
[4]You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
[5]For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
[6]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

This isn't talking about falling from one's salvation, but from the liberty from the condemnation of the law of God that walking in God's grace, extended to the believer in Christ, provides. One either walks in the liberty of Christ, or under the burden and inevitable condemnation of the law; one cannot do both simultaneously. The truly born-again believer may walk in either way, free from the condemning burden of the law, or under it, their salvation secure regardless. This is so because a person's salvation, their acceptance by God, is not contingent upon them, upon their work, but upon the perfection of Christ.

See: Ephesians 2:8-9
2 Timothy 1:9
Titus 3:5
1 Corinthians 1:30

 

[bling]

I listened to an online sermon and the preacher was talking about salvation.
Once you are saved that is it! You can't lose it.
If a person does lose it, then that means they were never really saved and therefore not truly Christian.

Why is that? It's like saying we have no choice either way? Where does this idea come from and is it an extreme position, over extrapolating some statement, or is this really how things are.

I found this statement from Paul that seems to suggest that Grace can be fallen away from... or am I misunderstanding?

Galatians 5:1-6
[1]It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
[2]Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
[3]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
[4]You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
[5]For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
[6]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Thank you

You cannot "loss" your salvation like you might loss your set of keys, your salvation cannot be taken from you by anyone and even God will not take it back, but since it is truly yours, you can just give it away.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I listened to an online sermon and the preacher was talking about salvation.
Once you are saved that is it! You can't lose it.
If a person does lose it, then that means they were never really saved and therefore not truly Christian.

Why is that? It's like saying we have no choice either way? Where does this idea come from and is it an extreme position, over extrapolating some statement, or is this really how things are.

I found this statement from Paul that seems to suggest that Grace can be fallen away from... or am I misunderstanding?

Galatians 5:1-6
[1]It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
[2]Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
[3]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
[4]You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
[5]For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
[6]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Thank you

You are correct and it is rather impressive that you see so clearly what so many believers refuse to see although it is in plain sight. Yes, a believer can fall away from the faith, lose the standing they had with God, return to a life of sin, end up in hell although they were on the road to Heaven. All of this is possible and has happened and I know the names of those who went this route. We have a choice. We always have a choice. Always.

The theology that promises once you are saved and forgiven you can never lose that position appeals to the laziness in man and so it is somewhat popular. These people do not want the burden of choice and so in their minds have surrendered it in the hope of securing a good place for themselves after this life with the pleasure of thinking that no choice they make, do what they will to others in the pursuit of their benefits, will change that. It is easy to see why people like this theology. Of course it is wrong and there are surprises coming to some who believed this.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You cannot "loss" your salvation like you might loss your set of keys, your salvation cannot be taken from you by anyone and even God will not take it back, but since it is truly yours, you can just give it away.

"He who endures to the end will be saved." Jesus

 

[bling]

"He who endures to the end will be saved." Jesus

Right, you cannot walk away and be saved.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Right, you cannot walk away and be saved.

We agree. If a saved Christian walks away, they are no longer saved. They walked away from it.