Faith Without Works

[lamb7]

I know works do not save us, but faith without works are dead. When we are born again what are the works that result? (Not talking about fruits of the Spirit)

Are they the way we live? What we do? Or is it very specific like help widows and orphans?

 

[Thedictator]

Works do not save us, but faith without works also does not save. Dead faith can not save because it is the wrong kind of faith. Alive faith is what saves us. Saving faith is faith that has action.

 

[mark kennedy]

I know works do not save us, but faith without works are dead. When we are born again what are the works that result? (Not talking about fruits of the Spirit)

Are they the way we live? What we do? Or is it very specific like help widows and orphans?

I think we are talking about the fruits of the Holy Spirit, we are saved for good works not by them. I guess it would be advisable to remember we are not saved by our good works, the completed work of Christ and the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit is another issue entirely.

 

[friend of]

Good works show evidence that one is saved. A saved person will be endowed with the strong desire to do good works and will (should), in time, increase in selflessness towards others. Walking in sanctification by following guidance from the Spirit quickens us to do His will and we begin to notice more things that are within our power to do for Him. Studying the bible, discussing the word's impact on your life past/currently, communicating in prayer and supplication, and seeking to do good all operate in a changed life for Christ. Never underestimate a thankful heart

That's the understanding I'm at, but everyone's journey is different. God's character reveals that He takes special interest in those who are most vulnerable here, and the bible itself says that caring for widows and orphans are works which are spiritual in the truest sense. If you can put yourself into positions that aid the marginalized of society, you should do the best you can for them (or anyone for that matter). By the way we live, we testify that we know God and Love Him (as He watches us from His big screen TV)

James 2:26 Just as the body is dead with our breath, so too is faith without works.

James 1:2-7

2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds,
3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.
4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.
6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.
7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord.


Hebrews 12:1-2

1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,
2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Colossians 3:15-17

15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.
16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts.
17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

 

[Soyeong]

I know works do not save us, but faith without works are dead. When we are born again what are the works that result? (Not talking about fruits of the Spirit)

Are they the way we live? What we do? Or is it very specific like help widows and orphans?

Abraham believed God so he was justified and Abraham believed God so he was careful to obey all of God's commands. However, he was not saved by being careful to obey all of God's commands, but because he had faith in God, but the same faith that justified him also led him to be careful to obey all of God's commands. It doesn't do much good for someone to say that they trust God to guide them in how to rightly live while refusing to be guided by God. We can't believe that Jesus is Lord while refusing to submit to him as Lord.

 

[Rescued One]

1 John 4
19 We love him, because he first loved us.

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

 

[TheSeabass]

I know works do not save us, but faith without works are dead. When we are born again what are the works that result? (Not talking about fruits of the Spirit)

Are they the way we live? What we do? Or is it very specific like help widows and orphans?

Obedient works in doing God's will do save:

James 2:24------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies/save
Rom 6:16-------obedience>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>unto righteousness
Rom 6:17,18----obey from the heart>>>>>>>>>>>justified
John 6:27---------work>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>unto everlasting life
Acts 10:35-------worketh righteousness>>>>>>>>accepted with God
Heb 5:9----------obey Him>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>salvation

Usually this is where some march the straw men out. Yet I did NOT say any kind of work saves but a specific work [obeying the will of God] is what saves. Nor did I say "works alone" save but obedient works in conjunction with God's grace saves:

Romans 3:25--------grace>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies
James 2:24--------obedient works>>>>>>>>>>justifies
Romans 5:1---------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies

Since there is just one way to be saved/justified, no alternatives, then God's grace MUST include men's obedient works. God's 'grace alone' without man's obedience does not justify/save. Man's 'works alone' without grace cannot justify/save either.

Since both faith and obedient works justify, then faith itself is an obedient work. And when man does obey the will of God, that does not put God in the position of owing that man salvation, that man just met the conditions God put upon His free gift of grace. Heb 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith." The saving of Noah's house was by grace, but God's grace conditionally required of Noah to work to build an ark. The work of building the ark did not mean God owed Noah's house salvation but Noah simply met God's requirement on His free gift of grace.

Noah just did what was his duty to do in obeying God's commands....

When men do obey God, man is still in the position of the unprofitable servant of (Lk 17:7-10)---"7-But who is there of you, having a servant plowing or keeping sheep, that will say unto him, when he is come in from the field, Come straightway and sit down to meat; 8- and will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? 9- Doth he thank the servant because he did the things that were commanded? 10- Even so ye also, when ye shall have done all the things that are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which it was our duty to do."

Even when man does his duty in obeying the will of God (Ecclesiastes 12:13) man is still in need of grace. One does not merit anything simply by doing what was his duty to do, i.e., the servant did not get "thanked" for doing what he was suppose to do, verse 9:

Man-
(1) cannot do anything more than what his duty is, he cannot do more than what he is commanded to merit God's grace, and
(2) before God, man does not do all his duty perfectly, (Psalms 143:2) so man cannot boast of his works.
Therefore God does not owe man when man is only doing what he is suppose to do so man's reward is "by grace, not debt".

 

[bbbbbbb]

Abraham believed God so he was justified and Abraham believed God so he was careful to obey all of God's commands. However, he was not saved by being careful to obey all of God's commands, but because he had faith in God, but the same faith that justified him also led him to be careful to obey all of God's commands. It doesn't do much good for someone to say that they trust God to guide them in how to rightly live while refusing to be guided by God. We can't believe that Jesus is Lord while refusing to submit to him as Lord.

Abraham may not be the greatest example. First, none of the Sinaitic commands had been issued by God. Abraham had surprisingly few commands to follow. He did circumcise his sons according to God's commands. He also offered up Isaac at God's command. He was also prone to lying, especially about his wife, which most of us would see as disobeying God.

The bottom line was that works did not fully justify Abraham.

 

[Soyeong]

Abraham may not be the greatest example. First, none of the Sinaitic commands had been issued by God. Abraham had surprisingly few commands to follow. He did circumcise his sons according to God's commands. He also offered up Isaac at God's command. He was also prone to lying, especially about his wife, which most of us would see as disobeying God.

The bottom line was that works did not fully justify Abraham.

Abraham is the father of our faith, so his is the greatest example that I could pick next to Jesus. In Genesis 26:5, it says that Abraham obeyed God's voice and kept His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. This does not give the impression that He had surprisingly few commands to follow. We don't know the exact content of these commands, but there is no doubt that they could be summarized as instructions for how to do what is holy, righteous, and good in accordance with God's ways, in the same way that the Mosaic Law can be summarized. There is much of evidence of many of the Mosaic Law already being in place throughout Genesis prior to when they were given at Sinai, so again I see no reason to think that Abraham was only given a few commands to follow. However, regardless of how many commands he was given, he was counted as being righteous because he obeyed them by faith.

I did not say that Abraham never disobeyed God or that he was justified by works, but that he was justified by the same faith that required him to be careful to obey all of God's commands.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Abraham is the father of our faith, so his is the greatest example that I could pick next to Jesus. In Genesis 26:5, it says that Abraham obeyed God's voice and kept His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. This does not give the impression that He had surprisingly few commands to follow. We don't know the exact content of these commands, but there is no doubt that they could be summarized as instructions for how to do what is holy, righteous, and good in accordance with God's ways, in the same way that the Mosaic Law can be summarized. There is much of evidence of many of the Mosaic Law already being in place throughout Genesis prior to when they were given at Sinai, so again I see no reason to think that Abraham was only given a few commands to follow. However, regardless of how many commands he was given, he was counted as being righteous because he obeyed them by faith.

I did not say that Abraham never disobeyed God or that he was justified by works, but that he was justified by the same faith that required him to be careful to obey all of God's commands.

Well, if God had commanded Abraham not to lie (and there is no record that He did) then Abraham was not terribly careful to obey all of God's commands.

Moses seems to me to be a better role model. Other than once, Moses is recorded as obeying God's commandments.

 

[Soyeong]

Well, if God had commanded Abraham not to lie (and there is no record that He did) then Abraham was not terribly careful to obey all of God's commands.

Moses seems to me to be a better role model. Other than once, Moses is recorded as obeying God's commandments.

When Abraham lied he was not trusting God, so he certainly wasn't sinless, yet his life was characterized by being careful to obey God's commands by faith. Moses murdered an Egyptian and did not trust God when he struck the rock twice to produce water, so he was not free from sin either, but when Abraham and Moses were acting in faith, they were being careful to obey all of God's commands. Moses is certainly another good example, but I don't recall the Bible specifically talking about when he was justified by faith.

 

[bbbbbbb]

When Abraham lied he was not trusting God, so he certainly wasn't sinless, yet his life was characterized by being careful to obey God's commands by faith. Moses murdered an Egyptian and did not trust God when he struck the rock twice to produce water, so he was not free from sin either, but when Abraham and Moses were acting in faith, they were being careful to obey all of God's commands. Moses is certainly another good example, but I don't recall the Bible specifically talking about when he was justified by faith.

This also displays the unfathomable grace of God.

 

[1213]

When we are born again what are the works that result? (Not talking about fruits of the Spirit)

I think it is the fruits of the Spirit. If you are faithful/loyal to God, you live by his will and it basically means:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal. 5:22

Love for example means you don’t do anything evil to others.

 

[Soyeong]

This also displays the unfathomable grace of God.

Indeed, God shows His grace to us by teaching us to obey His Law:

Psalms 119:29 Put false ways far from me and graciously teach me your law!

In Genesis 6:8-9, it says that Noah found grace in the eyes of God and that he was a righteous man. It was no accident that Noah was righteous, but rather he was taught God's Law by grace and was righteous because he obeyed through faith.

 

[Phil 1:21]

I think this is where a lot of folks get twisted up. Some denominations teach that we do good works to be saved, while in reality, we do good works because we are saved. Exactly what are those works? Jesus gave us many examples throughout the Gospels.

 

[Open Heart]

I know works do not save us, but faith without works are dead. When we are born again what are the works that result? (Not talking about fruits of the Spirit)

Are they the way we live? What we do? Or is it very specific like help widows and orphans?

We "do unto the least of these my brethren." We either directly or indirectly feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned and the sick...

We also keep His commandments, such as refraining from fornication, gossip, cheating... because obedience is how we know and love God.

I think if a lot of Christians sit down and think about it, they have faith without works, IOW a dead faith. Perhaps they should shudder.